WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:11.000 Okay, so the first speaker is EML from canonical and he'll be talking about risk 00:11.000 --> 00:13.000 five hardware where we're at. 00:13.000 --> 00:14.000 Welcome. 00:14.000 --> 00:15.000 Thank you. 00:15.000 --> 00:18.000 All right, yeah. 00:18.000 --> 00:27.000 So I thought I'll start out the day by not so technical talk, but just like introducing 00:27.000 --> 00:32.000 you to what hardware can we actually buy right now. 00:32.000 --> 00:34.000 As I began set, I'm EML. 00:34.000 --> 00:41.000 I'm a kernel engineer at canonical and I do the risk five kernels for Ubuntu. 00:41.000 --> 00:46.000 So in order to understand this landscape of what hardware we can buy, I think it's important 00:46.000 --> 00:48.000 to understand three constants. 00:48.000 --> 00:50.000 The first is the core. 00:50.000 --> 00:54.000 That's the actual logic that looks at the risk five instructions and sort of run 00:54.000 --> 00:55.000 the program. 00:55.000 --> 00:56.000 That's the suck. 00:56.000 --> 00:58.000 That's the chip you need. 00:58.000 --> 01:00.000 It's a physical thing. 01:00.000 --> 01:02.000 You know, the scent that can compute. 01:02.000 --> 01:06.000 And then the board is the green plate that you also need. 01:06.000 --> 01:10.000 So let me just go through this and talk a bit about what I mean. 01:10.000 --> 01:13.000 So the core usually written in a very lock. 01:13.000 --> 01:15.000 It's kind of like programming, but also not. 01:15.000 --> 01:19.000 It's a design, not a program. 01:19.000 --> 01:25.000 You can see example of a bit of a very lock at the side there. 01:25.000 --> 01:29.000 Yeah, so that's a piece of logic that runs your code. 01:29.000 --> 01:33.000 And this is where you can do like faster slower designs or smaller bigger designs 01:33.000 --> 01:36.000 depending on how you should stuff. 01:36.000 --> 01:38.000 Then you need the actual chip. 01:38.000 --> 01:42.000 These days we put more than just the core on the chip. 01:42.000 --> 01:46.000 So we call it a system on the chip because you see the yellow boxes up there. 01:46.000 --> 01:48.000 That's the actual course. 01:48.000 --> 01:52.000 But at the side there's lots of all the stuff. 01:52.000 --> 01:56.000 Peripherals like you'd need for Ethernet, USB, MNC. 01:56.000 --> 02:01.000 You also need like clock trees and a memory controller so you can have external RAM. 02:01.000 --> 02:04.000 You need lots of stuff inside of the stock. 02:04.000 --> 02:09.000 And all of those peripherals you can usually buy from different vendors so you can piece together your own suck. 02:09.000 --> 02:14.000 Kind of like in the old days you would buy a network car and a graphics car and an ID controller. 02:14.000 --> 02:19.000 Just on a very small scale. 02:19.000 --> 02:24.000 Lastly you need the actual board because like the stock can't run anything on itself. 02:24.000 --> 02:26.000 It needs like crystals for timekeeping. 02:26.000 --> 02:28.000 It needs different power levels. 02:28.000 --> 02:30.000 It needs something called decoupling. 02:30.000 --> 02:32.000 It needs the external RAM. 02:32.000 --> 02:39.000 It needs files to translate between the digital world world inside the chip and what you actually send on the wire. 02:39.000 --> 02:43.000 It needs connectors so you can plug in your USB stick into something. 02:43.000 --> 02:46.000 And they can be small like one at the top. 02:46.000 --> 02:48.000 That's like a Raspberry Pi size. 02:48.000 --> 02:54.000 Or they can be big and put into like a cabinet so you have something that looks like a real computer. 02:54.000 --> 03:00.000 But I think it's important to understand all these three things in the when I go forward. 03:00.000 --> 03:06.000 Because I'll just go and here this part I have two minutes light so try to make this quickly. 03:06.000 --> 03:11.000 So in the beginning there was sci-fi. 03:11.000 --> 03:20.000 And that's basically started by professors and PhD students from Berkeley where the risk five instruction set originates. 03:20.000 --> 03:27.000 And one thing that's important to understand about them is that they're not in the business of selling chips or bots. 03:27.000 --> 03:30.000 So what they really want to sell is just the design. 03:30.000 --> 03:35.000 The core I was talking about but also other stuff. 03:35.000 --> 03:39.000 So in 2018 I think it was announced here at first. 03:39.000 --> 03:45.000 They made the list on least board and as you can see they designed the core. 03:45.000 --> 03:48.000 They produced the chip and they also produced the board. 03:48.000 --> 03:53.000 And the reason they did that even though what they really want to sell is just the top part they call. 03:53.000 --> 03:57.000 This is like a tech demo to show the world this works and it does work. 03:57.000 --> 03:59.000 I mean I have one at home and it runs. 03:59.000 --> 04:01.000 That's so fast for the ones. 04:01.000 --> 04:06.000 It's also like a very simple chip. 04:06.000 --> 04:11.000 It only has like an even that controller that's fast everything else is super simple. 04:11.000 --> 04:19.000 Anyway, they actually did sell this core to for example micro chip. 04:19.000 --> 04:21.000 I'm sure it's a bit company you might know it. 04:21.000 --> 04:24.000 And here you can see it gets a little more interesting. 04:24.000 --> 04:28.000 You see the sci-fi design the core sold it's a micro chip who produced the chip. 04:28.000 --> 04:31.000 And then they also created their own isolated kit. 04:31.000 --> 04:36.000 But a lot of other companies made boards with this. 04:36.000 --> 04:39.000 And I mean it's a nice chip. 04:39.000 --> 04:44.000 If what it is it's an FPGA with some display cores on the side. 04:44.000 --> 04:49.000 And it's good for that but you probably wouldn't buy it to just for the cores. 04:49.000 --> 04:54.000 Because they're like the first generation of sci-fi cores and they're fast. 04:54.000 --> 04:55.000 But they work. 04:55.000 --> 04:59.000 They can run. In fact, it's a support a quite well upstream in Linux. 04:59.000 --> 05:02.000 And that's also why you see bigger boarding in 2023. 05:02.000 --> 05:10.000 A bigger board made the bigger we fire with this chip. 05:10.000 --> 05:12.000 But wrong way. 05:12.000 --> 05:17.000 Okay, two years later there's like the second generation of tech demo from sci-fi. 05:17.000 --> 05:19.000 And as you see again they made on three parts. 05:19.000 --> 05:22.000 They suck in the board. And of course a new core. 05:22.000 --> 05:24.000 They wanted to demo. 05:24.000 --> 05:25.000 But something interesting happened here. 05:25.000 --> 05:27.000 There's a Chinese company. 05:27.000 --> 05:30.000 Stuff five who also produced a their own chip. 05:30.000 --> 05:32.000 But with the same core. 05:32.000 --> 05:36.000 This was like a test chip for the upcoming product. 05:36.000 --> 05:37.000 The next chip. 05:37.000 --> 05:39.000 And it's the slices of a little misleading. 05:39.000 --> 05:42.000 Because actually the starlight board over there was first. 05:42.000 --> 05:43.000 There was like 800 out of them. 05:43.000 --> 05:45.000 I was lucky to get one of them. 05:45.000 --> 05:48.000 And then unfortunately a big board and see two people. 05:48.000 --> 05:50.000 And stuff I broke up. 05:50.000 --> 05:53.000 So stuff I produced is later their own board. 05:53.000 --> 05:56.000 There's like 3,000 of those. 05:56.000 --> 05:58.000 Yes. 05:58.000 --> 05:59.000 Fast. 05:59.000 --> 06:00.000 So what stuff? 06:00.000 --> 06:02.000 They didn't come out of nothing. 06:02.000 --> 06:07.000 Since I was actually started as sci-fi sort of Chinese branch. 06:07.000 --> 06:10.000 But they're now independent and designing their own course. 06:10.000 --> 06:12.000 But to give them credit, 06:13.000 --> 06:17.000 the Chinese vendor that actually has the most upstream present. 06:17.000 --> 06:18.000 Which I think is nice. 06:18.000 --> 06:22.000 Because a lot of other Chinese vendors are good actually. 06:22.000 --> 06:25.000 But they're not the only Chinese player. 06:25.000 --> 06:30.000 There's a, a little Baba have a like a design team. 06:30.000 --> 06:32.000 And they did something quite interesting. 06:32.000 --> 06:35.000 They not only did they produce course like sci-fi. 06:35.000 --> 06:38.000 They also put them out on GitHub. 06:38.000 --> 06:40.000 They're the shanty course. 06:41.000 --> 06:43.000 I don't know if I should call them home source. 06:43.000 --> 06:47.000 But at least you can go go look at some of the very locked on them. 06:47.000 --> 06:49.000 And then it got really interesting. 06:49.000 --> 06:51.000 Because then you can see. 06:51.000 --> 06:55.000 Now all winner took those small fancy course. 06:55.000 --> 06:57.000 Put them on a chip. 06:57.000 --> 07:01.000 And then lots of other Chinese companies produce course with them. 07:01.000 --> 07:03.000 That's why they dot something. 07:03.000 --> 07:05.000 There's plenty of other things. 07:05.000 --> 07:09.000 These are some of the examples that are quite well supported. 07:09.000 --> 07:12.000 Obviously. 07:12.000 --> 07:18.000 And another important that I want to mention. 07:18.000 --> 07:22.000 Just to show that it's not only tea head and sci-fi course. 07:22.000 --> 07:24.000 It was there. 07:24.000 --> 07:26.000 Was this. 07:26.000 --> 07:27.000 There's another. 07:27.000 --> 07:29.000 It's a Taiwanese company and it's who. 07:29.000 --> 07:31.000 They actually sell a lot of like mic control of course. 07:31.000 --> 07:33.000 But they also do logic course. 07:33.000 --> 07:34.000 They can run Linux. 07:34.000 --> 07:36.000 Sold them to run. 07:36.000 --> 07:39.000 They usually do like automotive arm sucks. 07:39.000 --> 07:42.000 But they also did this part. 07:42.000 --> 07:44.000 And I was really hoping for this. 07:44.000 --> 07:46.000 But unfortunately it has a box. 07:46.000 --> 07:47.000 So it can run. 07:47.000 --> 07:51.000 You need to compile the whole user space to work around this box. 07:51.000 --> 07:52.000 Which is a bummer. 07:52.000 --> 07:54.000 Because that means we can't run a bunch on this. 07:54.000 --> 07:55.000 Like the other box you saw. 07:55.000 --> 07:57.000 We have a bunch of images for them. 07:57.000 --> 07:59.000 We can't have a one for this one because it has a box. 07:59.000 --> 08:02.000 But I mean it is supported upstream in Linux. 08:02.000 --> 08:03.000 Which is nice. 08:04.000 --> 08:07.000 One way again. 08:07.000 --> 08:09.000 Then. 08:09.000 --> 08:10.000 Here we go. 08:10.000 --> 08:12.000 2022. 08:12.000 --> 08:13.000 Finally stuff. 08:13.000 --> 08:14.000 I released the real chip. 08:14.000 --> 08:16.000 Not just the test chip. 08:16.000 --> 08:19.000 And this is like. 08:19.000 --> 08:21.000 This is what I would recommend. 08:21.000 --> 08:22.000 If you just want something easy. 08:22.000 --> 08:23.000 Something that works. 08:23.000 --> 08:25.000 We have plenty of images. 08:25.000 --> 08:26.000 Those for like different digitals. 08:26.000 --> 08:28.000 Wouldn't to include it. 08:28.000 --> 08:31.000 Get the vision five or the mass board from the five. 08:31.000 --> 08:33.000 But you can see there are lots of other boards up there. 08:33.000 --> 08:35.000 I think actually now the start 64. 08:35.000 --> 08:37.000 It also has a device tree upstream. 08:37.000 --> 08:39.000 So you can run upstream. 08:39.000 --> 08:41.000 Kind of some of these boards. 08:41.000 --> 08:42.000 And it's super easy. 08:42.000 --> 08:44.000 Good images for all the research. 08:44.000 --> 08:45.000 If you want. 08:45.000 --> 08:46.000 Basically. 08:46.000 --> 08:48.000 And. 08:48.000 --> 08:50.000 But I mean just. 08:50.000 --> 08:52.000 Expect the recipe. 08:52.000 --> 08:53.000 Buy three. 08:53.000 --> 08:54.000 It's sweet. 08:54.000 --> 08:56.000 It's not like they're super fast. 08:56.000 --> 08:57.000 But. 08:57.000 --> 08:59.000 For most of them you can actually attach them in your need drive. 08:59.000 --> 09:00.000 So they have proper storage. 09:00.000 --> 09:01.000 Which is nice. 09:05.000 --> 09:06.000 Later. 09:06.000 --> 09:08.000 23. 09:08.000 --> 09:09.000 There's. 09:09.000 --> 09:11.000 Now you can see actually. 09:11.000 --> 09:13.000 He had they produced their own suck with. 09:13.000 --> 09:15.000 A little a little faster call. 09:15.000 --> 09:16.000 Uh. 09:16.000 --> 09:20.000 My impression is that they needed this suck to do android porting. 09:20.000 --> 09:21.000 But. 09:21.000 --> 09:24.000 In any case, they sold it to a lot of other. 09:24.000 --> 09:25.000 Um. 09:25.000 --> 09:27.000 Companies that makes boards for this. 09:27.000 --> 09:28.000 And. 09:28.000 --> 09:29.000 There's a little scale way. 09:29.000 --> 09:30.000 Uh. 09:30.000 --> 09:31.000 Logo down here. 09:31.000 --> 09:32.000 And that's because. 09:32.000 --> 09:33.000 Uh. 09:33.000 --> 09:35.000 I don't know if you've seen scale ways of French hosting provider. 09:35.000 --> 09:36.000 You can buy virtual. 09:36.000 --> 09:39.000 Which five machines from them or actually real hardware. 09:39.000 --> 09:41.000 And the real hardware is this chip. 09:41.000 --> 09:42.000 Um. 09:42.000 --> 09:45.000 I would not be surprised if they just bought a bunch of those. 09:45.000 --> 09:46.000 Uh. 09:46.000 --> 09:49.000 Did you buy a cluster for a that you see just above their logo. 09:49.000 --> 09:50.000 But I don't know. 09:50.000 --> 09:51.000 It's. 09:51.000 --> 09:52.000 It's this chip. 09:52.000 --> 09:53.000 At least. 09:53.000 --> 09:56.000 And then. 09:56.000 --> 09:57.000 Ha ha. 09:57.000 --> 09:58.000 They're planning you might've seen this. 09:58.000 --> 09:59.000 It's the best. 09:59.000 --> 10:01.000 So it has 64 goes and that's again, the. 10:01.000 --> 10:03.000 The T hit course. 10:03.000 --> 10:04.000 Uh. 10:04.000 --> 10:06.000 And a lot of memory. 10:06.000 --> 10:07.000 And, uh. 10:07.000 --> 10:08.000 Uh. 10:08.000 --> 10:11.000 I think I saw the PCI driver getting up to in town. 10:11.000 --> 10:14.000 So maybe soon you can run upstream on it and actually use it. 10:14.000 --> 10:17.000 But this is still your best bet if you just want to. 10:17.000 --> 10:19.000 Compile GCC or the kernel. 10:19.000 --> 10:20.000 Basically it's well. 10:20.000 --> 10:21.000 It's. 10:21.000 --> 10:22.000 Probably get it done fast. 10:22.000 --> 10:23.000 But. 10:23.000 --> 10:24.000 Uh. 10:24.000 --> 10:31.000 see later those first generation of T-head course, they are first generation. 10:31.000 --> 10:41.040 But here is the second generation, where they actually have the real, ratified version of 10:41.040 --> 10:42.040 vectors. 10:42.040 --> 10:47.120 So in 2013, it came also this little boat that was popular for a short while when this 10:47.120 --> 10:50.680 was the only boat you can get with the vector in hardware. 10:50.680 --> 11:01.200 So you can actually test your crypto, decoding, audio, video decoding with the vector extensions. 11:01.200 --> 11:04.000 But it's very small and it doesn't have a lot of RAM. 11:04.000 --> 11:08.720 So luckily later came this boat. 11:08.720 --> 11:14.280 To me unknown, Chinese company called SpaceMit, with apparently their own core. 11:14.280 --> 11:17.920 And they produce two different versions of the chip, I think it's the same, just one 11:17.920 --> 11:20.880 of them, can be run a bit faster. 11:20.880 --> 11:24.880 And then again, lots of other companies did possible then. 11:24.880 --> 11:28.920 And later you'll hear from youening, from T computing, who also did like the second 11:28.920 --> 11:32.560 laptop with the chip. 11:32.560 --> 11:38.400 This core, I've been told that they started with the T-head course and then sort of developed 11:38.400 --> 11:39.560 from that. 11:39.560 --> 11:46.840 But it's not something I know for certain. 11:46.880 --> 11:52.920 Yeah, this is also the air where we got our first sort of hardware bug with the logo. 11:52.920 --> 11:57.880 And by now I hope you will be able to see that when it says down here, breaks in secret 11:57.880 --> 11:59.800 of T-head with 5 CPU. 11:59.800 --> 12:04.760 What they mean is that it's a bug in those T-head course. 12:04.760 --> 12:09.760 So now you lot to be able to understand why this affects a chip from all women, a chip 12:09.760 --> 12:12.480 from soft go and their own chip. 12:12.480 --> 12:24.960 But does not have anything to do with like a broken with 5-spec or any other broken CPUs. 12:24.960 --> 12:25.960 All right. 12:25.960 --> 12:32.560 And then, then we are to this year, it's sci-fi's latest sort of tech demo. 12:32.560 --> 12:38.560 But this time they didn't produce their chip themselves, they had a deal with the Chinese 12:38.640 --> 12:43.880 company S1 who produced this EIC and 770, and they are producing their high-five premium 12:43.880 --> 12:47.600 P550. 12:47.600 --> 12:49.680 This is still the earlier days. 12:49.680 --> 12:59.080 It has an abunter image, but the code for it is unfortunately not quite upstream yet. 12:59.080 --> 13:03.160 And maybe in grey you can see that there's been announcements of all our bots with the 13:03.240 --> 13:05.240 same chip in the future. 13:05.240 --> 13:16.120 So that's my quick rundown of all the hardware we can buy right now. 13:16.120 --> 13:20.200 And for most of them, at least all the ones that are upstream support, they are of course 13:20.200 --> 13:21.200 going to images. 13:21.200 --> 13:25.920 I promise to say this. 13:25.920 --> 13:32.560 So looking forward, one thing I'm looking forward to is, and this is trying again. 13:32.560 --> 13:38.360 This time with their own chip, and they also have their own bot. 13:38.360 --> 13:41.720 And there's also been announcements from deep computing that they might be doing something 13:41.720 --> 13:42.720 with this chip. 13:42.720 --> 13:45.440 So I'm looking forward to this. 13:45.440 --> 13:55.440 Just because it's not like a T-head or a sci-fi call, it's something new. 13:55.440 --> 14:01.560 Then they of course, the known players, Ventana and Reboos, they do a lot of upstream work 14:01.560 --> 14:05.960 so when they finally release their hardware, I'm sure it's going to be great. 14:05.960 --> 14:10.240 But when it happens, I don't want to guess. 14:10.240 --> 14:15.960 And then there's also a few companies that do like PCI cards with a lot, a little, a 14:15.960 --> 14:21.240 risk-fi calls on it for like AI and accelerating stuff. 14:21.240 --> 14:27.680 And I'm sure both of them are thinking about making like a big risk-fi calls, so it can 14:27.680 --> 14:29.600 be like a standalone server. 14:29.600 --> 14:34.360 But when it's going to happen, also, your guess is, as good as mine. 14:34.360 --> 14:40.480 And then, lastly, something I'm looking forward to is that the Chinese Academy of Sciences 14:40.480 --> 14:46.240 is actually developing what they say is an open source, high performance risk-fi process 14:46.240 --> 14:50.120 at the Shanghai. 14:50.120 --> 14:56.480 And I boomers tells me that it's about ready to be taped out, so for something that 14:56.520 --> 15:00.640 you can actually buy and not just for testing. 15:00.640 --> 15:04.880 So I'm looking forward to see how it will perform when it's taken. 15:04.880 --> 15:11.840 Again, you can search for Shanghai and we'll find like this page and links to GitHub and 15:11.840 --> 15:18.800 you can go look at the Urla code action. 15:18.800 --> 15:19.800 That's it. 15:19.800 --> 15:21.800 Did I make it inside? 15:21.800 --> 15:23.800 I can't plan till time. 15:23.840 --> 15:28.040 Because then I have like a little bonus page here with the last one. 15:28.040 --> 15:33.880 Yes, questions. 15:33.880 --> 15:41.320 So did I see that correctly that the most recent non-Chinese course were just micro-ship 15:41.320 --> 15:42.320 and renasas? 15:42.320 --> 15:43.320 No, of course. 15:43.320 --> 15:46.560 Of course, from sci-fi, but chips. 15:46.560 --> 15:47.560 Ah, sorry. 15:47.560 --> 15:48.560 The socks. 15:48.560 --> 15:49.560 Yeah. 15:49.560 --> 15:51.120 Yeah, that's right. 15:51.160 --> 15:59.480 So there is, so currently there are no non-Chinese chip vendors for risk-fifx chips. 15:59.480 --> 16:01.280 Yeah, there's only micro-ship. 16:01.280 --> 16:03.800 All right. 16:03.800 --> 16:04.800 Yeah. 16:04.800 --> 16:13.640 And I think actually they did announce that at least they did announce that they won a bit 16:13.640 --> 16:17.080 for creating space chips from NASA. 16:17.120 --> 16:21.320 So they will be producing more risk-fifx chips in the future. 16:21.320 --> 16:22.320 Yes. 16:22.320 --> 16:26.440 So thank you first of all for the great presentation overview. 16:26.440 --> 16:27.400 Just want to check. 16:27.400 --> 16:42.080 So the vector extension, I can find on the K 230 that you said, but is it 0.7 or 1.0? 16:42.080 --> 16:43.080 That's right. 16:43.120 --> 16:47.880 So when I said the first generation T-head, they had the 0.7 vector extensions and 16:47.880 --> 16:54.000 they were a little, I guess they were, yeah, are we really going to update our GCC and 16:54.000 --> 16:55.000 write all that code? 16:55.000 --> 16:59.240 It's been done eventually to support this because it's only those courses have the 16:59.240 --> 17:00.240 0.7. 17:00.240 --> 17:02.480 Everything else you'd be using 1.2. 17:02.480 --> 17:05.960 Where was it? 17:06.960 --> 17:12.960 So this one has the vector 1.0. 17:12.960 --> 17:17.960 It's, yeah, it doesn't have a lot of RAM and it's not very fast, but it has the vectors. 17:17.960 --> 17:22.960 But then the space midship also has vectors 1.0 and you can write it. 17:22.960 --> 17:25.960 And the p5.0 from sci-fi? 17:25.960 --> 17:28.960 I don't think it has the vector, no unfortunately. 17:28.960 --> 17:32.960 And do you know it has the hypervisor extension? 17:32.960 --> 17:38.960 It does, but they are, it's not advertised because they are not completely to speak. 17:38.960 --> 17:41.960 From the software side, it's not in a window. 17:41.960 --> 17:46.960 So my colleague Heinlek has actually run QMU and have it accelerated. 17:46.960 --> 17:52.960 And for what it tells me it works, but sci-fi tells me that there's something in the hardware 17:52.960 --> 17:54.960 that that's not quite right. 17:54.960 --> 18:00.960 And maybe it's something that can be worked around in software, but I'm not exactly sure about the details yet. 18:00.960 --> 18:01.960 Thank you. 18:02.960 --> 18:15.960 Thank you for the nice overview. 18:15.960 --> 18:22.960 I have a quick question just judging a lot of the companies involved, our Chinese, 18:22.960 --> 18:29.960 is getting sanctioned by being put on the US entity list, actually a concern or a house that happened. 18:29.960 --> 18:30.960 Yes, it is. 18:31.960 --> 18:37.960 What's the risk involved? 18:37.960 --> 18:38.960 Yeah. 18:38.960 --> 18:42.960 So this company is a Chinese company. 18:42.960 --> 18:45.960 They used to do Bitcoin miners and stuff. 18:45.960 --> 18:52.960 And I'm sure they had lots of other projects planned for other RISP-5 SOCs. 18:52.960 --> 18:59.960 Unfortunately, they have been caught with some of their ships on Huawei hardware. 18:59.960 --> 19:02.960 So now they've been put on the sanctioned list. 19:02.960 --> 19:06.960 So they can't similar to how Huawei can't use TSMC, 19:06.960 --> 19:08.960 software can't use TSMC any longer. 19:08.960 --> 19:10.960 So now they have a big problem. 19:10.960 --> 19:11.960 So yeah. 19:11.960 --> 19:16.960 That's unfortunate. 19:16.960 --> 19:22.960 How is the peripheral support and the bugs you showed? 19:22.960 --> 19:27.960 For this one I recommend this one. 19:27.960 --> 19:30.960 It's quite good except for graphics. 19:30.960 --> 19:34.960 Nothing has graphics upstream yet. 19:34.960 --> 19:38.960 So that's also why in my quick. 19:38.960 --> 19:42.960 This one I was saying, I want graphics good luck. 19:42.960 --> 19:48.960 Because if it's not, you need to use the vendor kernel or what you can do is get something like 19:48.960 --> 19:51.960 the on-match spot, which has a really nice PCI driver. 19:51.960 --> 19:54.960 So you can actually just block in an old region card. 19:54.960 --> 19:58.960 And then you get like a problem with this stuff. 19:58.960 --> 20:03.960 What is the state of support in operating systems other than Linux? 20:03.960 --> 20:06.960 Do you have any knowledge of that? 20:06.960 --> 20:08.960 No, I don't know if Jessica's. 20:08.960 --> 20:10.960 She knows about freebies. 20:10.960 --> 20:14.960 I'm sure they also support quite a lot of these tips. 20:19.960 --> 20:21.960 You mentioned for graphics, you can old radion. 20:21.960 --> 20:23.960 Why an old radion? 20:23.960 --> 20:24.960 Sorry. 20:24.960 --> 20:28.960 What I meant was just any PCI card with like an open source driver. 20:28.960 --> 20:29.960 It should work. 20:41.960 --> 20:43.960 No more questions? 20:43.960 --> 20:44.960 Okay. 20:44.960 --> 20:45.960 Sorry. 20:45.960 --> 20:54.960 Have any of the major big free cloud computing providers expressed interest in the risk 20:54.960 --> 20:55.960 of all? 20:55.960 --> 20:58.960 Like Amazon, Google and Microsoft? 20:58.960 --> 21:05.960 I'm sure they're looking at it, but not like anything they said publicly that I know of. 21:05.960 --> 21:09.960 Google has in their Chromebooks. 21:09.960 --> 21:12.960 They have like a security chip. 21:12.960 --> 21:15.960 But that's a microcontroller size chip. 21:15.960 --> 21:20.960 So that actually runs with five. 21:20.960 --> 21:21.960 Not yet. 21:21.960 --> 21:27.960 But I'm sure Reboos and Ventana and Tinstone and they're like, 21:27.960 --> 21:30.960 a lot of companies will want to sell them that. 21:30.960 --> 21:33.960 Once they're ready. 21:33.960 --> 21:36.960 This is a question down here. 21:42.960 --> 21:56.960 So looking at the socks and the additional peripherals. 21:56.960 --> 22:02.960 Are there repositories with open source peripherals in them as well? 22:02.960 --> 22:07.960 Are they located on different dice in most socks? 22:07.960 --> 22:09.960 They're on the same die. 22:09.960 --> 22:14.960 There are also repose with open source peripherals. 22:14.960 --> 22:16.960 So there is a product. 22:16.960 --> 22:25.960 Unfortunately, I forgot it's name, but there is like a product that's some. 22:25.960 --> 22:30.960 A bunch of Python code that will take these designs from different open source. 22:30.960 --> 22:34.960 And then it will like combine it all into one sock. 22:34.960 --> 22:36.960 They have like a risk call. 22:37.960 --> 22:39.960 That's the one I was thinking about. 22:39.960 --> 22:40.960 Okay. 22:40.960 --> 22:41.960 Okay. 22:41.960 --> 22:45.960 But then I have a design for my own chip that I could tape out if I had like a million dollars too much. 22:45.960 --> 22:46.960 That's right. 22:46.960 --> 22:47.960 Yeah. 22:47.960 --> 22:50.960 Is there a, I mean, really great salt? 22:50.960 --> 22:56.960 Because like what happens when you have your open source design and you go to have it manufactured, 22:56.960 --> 23:01.960 then they will say, oh wait a minute, you actually need to connect all your digital logic to the outside world. 23:01.960 --> 23:06.960 And then you need like a lot of analog stuff that's particular to the process they're using. 23:06.960 --> 23:11.960 And you need to buy that from us and that's completely closed because it's part of their process. 23:11.960 --> 23:26.960 So what is your personal impression on, let's say, hidden vulnerabilities in all of that stuff that you buy adjacent to the actual chip? 23:26.960 --> 23:33.960 I mean, one of the concerns or one of the, one of the reasons that some people have to use risk five are obviously security concerns. 23:33.960 --> 23:41.960 But if I have to buy additional hardware that it's connected to, what does that mean for you? 23:41.960 --> 23:48.960 There's like I called Bonne-Hwang who has a project where he has like a super secure phone. 23:48.960 --> 23:55.960 And he has thought a lot about this sort of security of how can we actually verify that the chips that we, 23:55.960 --> 23:59.960 that we run stuff on actually does what we, what we thought they did. 23:59.960 --> 24:04.960 So what he's done is that he's actually running most of it on an FPGA, 24:04.960 --> 24:11.960 because then it's harder to hide stuff because he can, like they don't know how you dynamically reprogram the FPGA. 24:11.960 --> 24:16.960 So yeah, look up what's the project called with the phone he's making. 24:16.960 --> 24:20.960 I forget. But yeah, Bonne-Hwang, look at that. 24:21.960 --> 24:22.960 Thanks. 24:22.960 --> 24:25.960 Yeah, and I should comment on this. 24:25.960 --> 24:28.960 You know, I'm not the chip designer and I'm starting to get involved with this. 24:28.960 --> 24:34.960 But the designs that we've got that open hardware foundation are fully documented and verified, 24:34.960 --> 24:38.960 at least, you know, for the cores themselves and we've got the microcontroller. 24:38.960 --> 24:45.960 So not Linux class, but that particular macrocontroller as per the shells that are part of it. 24:45.960 --> 24:50.960 But the full set once again, you will have to deal with whatever foundry, you know, 24:50.960 --> 24:57.960 but so maybe you should have a look if you have concerns about things being open and verified at the same time. 24:57.960 --> 25:03.960 I think, yeah. 25:03.960 --> 25:10.960 An openness is a fairly a question, but you have shown a lot of course on the higher end. 25:10.960 --> 25:15.960 Yes, the lower end, the second generation, the second generation, 25:15.960 --> 25:18.960 the second generation, the second generation, the second generation. 25:18.960 --> 25:20.960 That's right. 25:20.960 --> 25:21.960 That's right. 25:21.960 --> 25:23.960 Yeah, I forgot that disclaimer in the beginning. 25:23.960 --> 25:28.960 I do Linux from my data up, so my view is good to what the stuff that can run Linux. 25:28.960 --> 25:34.960 But it's a whole host of the microcontrollers that also run this file that you can buy. 25:34.960 --> 25:38.960 And it's a really nice, and it's a whole talk on its own. 25:40.960 --> 25:53.960 Yes, and all that out there. 25:53.960 --> 25:59.960 So the question was, yeah, what about the early boot process, I think, 25:59.960 --> 26:02.960 and then like the firmware that runs before we get to Linux? 26:03.960 --> 26:12.960 For now, it's very similar to onboard, so usually they would want you boot. 26:12.960 --> 26:19.960 Even the day is 71-10, even has like the really early boot where it sets up RAM time in 26:19.960 --> 26:21.960 since stuff upstream. 26:21.960 --> 26:28.960 So you basically just run upstream you boot on these stuff, I've chips. 26:28.960 --> 26:33.960 And then you need a component called OpenSBI for technical reasons. 26:33.960 --> 26:41.960 That's also open source, and that's basically it. 26:41.960 --> 26:49.960 Yeah, kind of off topic question, you have a core, you have all digital design, 26:49.960 --> 26:55.960 a lot of analog periphery, when it comes to manufacturing, 26:55.960 --> 27:01.960 how to produce your chips, and how this is financed. 27:01.960 --> 27:03.960 That's a good, who actually produces them? 27:03.960 --> 27:08.960 I think mostly TSMC these days, but I may be wrong, maybe. 27:08.960 --> 27:12.960 Well, at least for some of the designs we've got at OpenSBI Foundation, 27:12.960 --> 27:16.960 we worked with local fondries on getting actual physical chips. 27:16.960 --> 27:20.960 So there's a variety of vendors, but I'm no expert either, so that's anyway. 27:20.960 --> 27:24.960 There's a variety of... 27:24.960 --> 27:29.960 No, in that case it was, I think, in Taiwan? 27:29.960 --> 27:30.960 Yeah. 27:30.960 --> 27:35.960 But it's a question of financing this. 27:35.960 --> 27:41.960 So the financial support comes from foundation, from risk violation, 27:41.960 --> 27:44.960 because you have to pay for it. 27:44.960 --> 27:49.960 Yeah, well, I don't think that the risk violation would bankrupt you 27:49.960 --> 27:53.960 if you were to add chips made, but if you're an academic, 27:53.960 --> 27:57.960 or things like that, then university professors will be able to get a ride 27:57.960 --> 28:01.960 on not fully complete wifers and things like that. 28:01.960 --> 28:05.960 In our case, at OpenSBI Foundation, we had the same kind of deal, 28:05.960 --> 28:11.960 so we had maybe a limited round of 200 chips made from our microcontroller, 28:11.960 --> 28:15.960 and then we discovered there was a short unit, those things happen. 28:15.960 --> 28:20.960 But apart from that, I mean, if you're really in the commercial world, 28:20.960 --> 28:26.960 or trying to get things done yourself, you won't get subsidies for anyone for that, 28:26.960 --> 28:29.960 because manufacturing is quite expensive. 28:29.960 --> 28:36.960 Yes, it's really expensive, and you have to commit, of course, 28:36.960 --> 28:41.960 to use the tooling that they prefer at that particular fundry 28:41.960 --> 28:44.960 and work with the effort for all, so it's not to. 28:57.960 --> 29:00.960 You're baking the kernels for a punter, right? 29:00.960 --> 29:01.960 That's right. 29:01.960 --> 29:04.960 What's special about a risk fight kernel? 29:04.960 --> 29:09.960 So I am sometimes a little more lenient in that I just want to have, 29:09.960 --> 29:14.960 like, about working, so sometimes they take patches before they are fully accepted 29:14.960 --> 29:21.960 upstream, and then other than that, it's just that I re-base of all of the security 29:21.960 --> 29:24.960 patching that goes on and made a bunch of kernels. 29:24.960 --> 29:27.960 So it's pretty much vanilla. 29:27.960 --> 29:31.960 You can pretty much use a vanilla kernel on risk fight. 29:31.960 --> 29:32.960 Oh yeah, yeah. 29:35.960 --> 29:39.960 I mean, depending on the board, right, when for the staff of the board, 29:39.960 --> 29:44.960 yes, and for the two early sci-fi boards, definitely yes, 29:44.960 --> 29:48.960 and the microchip board, and also the all-winner D1, 29:48.960 --> 29:50.960 also works reasonably well. 29:50.960 --> 29:54.960 I have some extra patches that it's not quite upstream yet, 29:54.960 --> 29:57.960 but yeah, for the early board, yes. 29:57.960 --> 30:01.960 What do you use for daily driver and why? 30:01.960 --> 30:09.960 I am. So I also use the staff of the board, so that's just the staff of the board, 30:09.960 --> 30:15.960 the vision-5-2, and I have a milk mask board that I actually use as a jump post in my 30:15.960 --> 30:17.960 Hacker space. 30:17.960 --> 30:18.960 Yeah. 30:18.960 --> 30:19.960 Hi. 30:19.960 --> 30:23.960 Do you have any timeline on the space mid boards, 30:23.960 --> 30:26.960 like when they're going to go upstream? 30:26.960 --> 30:29.960 Because currently they're on that PMB kernel, right? 30:29.960 --> 30:30.960 That's right. 30:30.960 --> 30:31.960 Yeah. 30:31.960 --> 30:36.960 But I forget his name, but DLAN, he's called online, 30:36.960 --> 30:38.960 is working on an upstream again. 30:38.960 --> 30:46.960 And I think they're in, in, when I was short while, 30:46.960 --> 30:52.960 they will have enough that you can run from the onboard EMMC upstream. 30:52.960 --> 30:56.960 I don't think that will take many releases. 30:57.960 --> 31:00.960 But of course, no graphics or anything like that. 31:00.960 --> 31:05.960 So this is more of a ecosystem, I guess, 31:05.960 --> 31:09.960 question. On arm, you have applications like box 86. 31:09.960 --> 31:12.960 What's the situation for running proprietary software, 31:12.960 --> 31:15.960 meant for other architectures on risk-5? 31:15.960 --> 31:18.960 Is there any, like, recompiler emulator like this or not, not really? 31:18.960 --> 31:22.960 Oh, you should ask my colleague, I'm like, you will know all about this. 31:22.960 --> 31:25.960 It does box 86, not have a risk-5 port. 31:25.960 --> 31:29.960 I think there's some, some emulator that does have a risk-5 port. 31:29.960 --> 31:31.960 Yeah. 31:36.960 --> 31:41.960 So when you're building a kernel for a specific sock, 31:41.960 --> 31:45.960 you obviously need something like the device tree overlay 31:45.960 --> 31:47.960 to, to build that correctly. 31:47.960 --> 31:54.960 But how different are the course themselves and what are 31:54.960 --> 31:56.960 the customization points that you have to take into account 31:56.960 --> 31:59.960 when you're building the kernel, when you're, when you're preparing 31:59.960 --> 32:01.960 the kernel to build? 32:01.960 --> 32:06.960 So the little kernel is quite good at sort of patching itself, 32:06.960 --> 32:10.960 once it boots. For example, the first generation T-head course, 32:10.960 --> 32:16.960 they use some bits in the page table in a different way 32:16.960 --> 32:21.960 from, because they used them before the spec was ready. 32:21.960 --> 32:25.960 So the kernel will sort of patch itself and say, 32:25.960 --> 32:30.960 oh, okay, now I'm running on this tip, so I need to use these functions. 32:30.960 --> 32:32.960 So we build what, the kernel is the same. 32:32.960 --> 32:34.960 The only difference is the device tree. 32:34.960 --> 32:37.960 And then once it boots, it will take on on this platform 32:37.960 --> 32:39.960 and it will patch up itself and run. 32:39.960 --> 32:44.960 Okay, so, so you build the kernel just for an abstract, 32:44.960 --> 32:48.960 I-S-A specification and you don't generate that from the 32:48.960 --> 32:50.960 very little code and then you have to build for. 32:50.960 --> 32:52.960 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 32:58.960 --> 33:02.960 Yeah, just out of curiosity, as you're going to, 33:02.960 --> 33:05.960 how are the kernels actually built? Are they cross-compiled 33:05.960 --> 33:06.960 in the next CD6 board? 33:06.960 --> 33:10.960 Or is it actually, do you have, like, a risk fee farm or something? 33:10.960 --> 33:12.960 I wish, I wish. 33:12.960 --> 33:15.960 But we do have a policy of sort of dog fooding. 33:15.960 --> 33:18.960 So we are not cross, I mean, I cross-compiled all day for testing. 33:18.960 --> 33:21.960 But when we actually release the kernels, they are built 33:21.960 --> 33:22.960 natively. 33:22.960 --> 33:24.960 But by natively, what I mean is that they're built 33:24.960 --> 33:27.960 inside the QMU and big servers. 33:27.960 --> 33:31.960 Yeah, so that's why I'm really looking forward to 33:31.960 --> 33:36.960 when we can actually have a board that has the 33:36.960 --> 33:40.960 virtualization extensions so we can run like virtual machines 33:40.960 --> 33:43.960 on like risk files servers. 33:43.960 --> 33:46.960 Because, yeah, we need that. 33:46.960 --> 33:49.960 Thanks. 33:49.960 --> 33:54.960 Yes, up here. 33:54.960 --> 33:56.960 Is all the hardware that you showed, 33:56.960 --> 33:59.960 64 bit risk files? 33:59.960 --> 34:02.960 Some of it is 32 bit. 34:02.960 --> 34:06.960 Yes, all the boards up in some in about 64 bits. 34:06.960 --> 34:10.960 And all the distributions you will see are compiled for 64 bit. 34:10.960 --> 34:13.960 I think the N2 may have some experimental 34:13.960 --> 34:16.960 where they can compile for 32 bit. 34:16.960 --> 34:19.960 But usually you would do something like 34:19.960 --> 34:22.960 York to a build route for 32 bit. 34:22.960 --> 34:25.960 So it is not possible to run up on 32 bit? 34:25.960 --> 34:26.960 No. 34:26.960 --> 34:29.960 You only have a 64 bit board. 34:29.960 --> 34:33.960 And by the way, there's one similar to other 34:33.960 --> 34:35.960 and microchip made. 34:35.960 --> 34:38.960 If PDA with some risk files costs, 34:38.960 --> 34:43.960 I've also heard about a Chinese FPDA with some 32 bit 34:43.960 --> 34:45.960 risk files costs in hardware. 34:45.960 --> 34:48.960 It's like, first time I've heard 34:48.960 --> 34:50.960 something you actually put 32 bit. 34:50.960 --> 34:53.960 Demiscapable chip in hardware. 34:53.960 --> 34:57.960 Usually 32 bit Linux is when you have an FPDA. 34:57.960 --> 35:01.960 And you just want to use this little of those gates as possible. 35:02.960 --> 35:07.960 Why do you have this policy of not cross compiling? 35:07.960 --> 35:10.960 So I know it's a hassle, but besides that, 35:10.960 --> 35:11.960 why do you do that? 35:11.960 --> 35:14.960 It's just to make sure that everything can compile itself 35:14.960 --> 35:16.960 and everything works as it should. 35:16.960 --> 35:21.960 You know, two chains and all the stuff. 35:21.960 --> 35:25.960 And just to complete on the 32 bit question, 35:25.960 --> 35:28.960 typically you will find 32 bit designs 35:28.960 --> 35:31.960 and you will find 32 bit support for that. 35:31.960 --> 35:34.960 But that's mostly real time operating systems 35:34.960 --> 35:36.960 like Eclipse, Red X or ZIFI. 35:47.960 --> 35:48.960 Hello. 35:48.960 --> 35:51.960 Great to see someone that might be able to answer my question. 35:51.960 --> 35:54.960 So I got a high five on matched board. 35:55.960 --> 35:58.960 And I downloaded Ubuntu. 35:58.960 --> 36:02.960 And it was with 1.2 gigahertz. 36:02.960 --> 36:05.960 Scale down the CPU frequency. 36:05.960 --> 36:08.960 Do you happen to know why? 36:08.960 --> 36:09.960 No, sorry. 36:09.960 --> 36:11.960 But let's talk afterwards. 36:11.960 --> 36:14.960 Yeah, because it was advertised at 1.4. 36:14.960 --> 36:16.960 I think, and it was coming. 36:16.960 --> 36:17.960 Yeah. 36:17.960 --> 36:19.960 So I had to overclock it. 36:19.960 --> 36:23.960 And documentation was not there. 36:23.960 --> 36:24.960 But I managed it. 36:24.960 --> 36:25.960 But you made a book? 36:25.960 --> 36:26.960 Yeah, yeah. 36:26.960 --> 36:28.960 And it works perfectly at 1.4. 36:28.960 --> 36:29.960 Nice. 36:29.960 --> 36:30.960 Yeah. 36:30.960 --> 36:31.960 I just wanted to know. 36:31.960 --> 36:32.960 Yeah. 36:32.960 --> 36:33.960 Let's talk about that. 36:33.960 --> 36:34.960 Okay. 36:34.960 --> 36:35.960 And another question. 36:35.960 --> 36:38.960 When will it be possible to have just one image? 36:38.960 --> 36:39.960 Yeah. 36:39.960 --> 36:40.960 When will possible to have one image? 36:40.960 --> 36:41.960 Yes. 36:41.960 --> 36:43.960 That's a good question. 36:43.960 --> 36:45.960 So, 36:46.960 --> 36:54.960 close the risk-five foundation has this kind of spec that sort of tells how we're supposed to 36:54.960 --> 36:55.960 to boot. 36:55.960 --> 37:01.960 And it leans heavily on quite similar to what others when they're mandating UEFI. 37:01.960 --> 37:07.960 And then hopefully we can live in a world one day where I know UEFI is not perfect, 37:07.960 --> 37:10.960 but at least it's one standard that everybody can use. 37:10.960 --> 37:14.960 And we can just produce images that expect that they are booted using UEFI. 37:14.960 --> 37:24.960 And you don't have to worry about your boot or what's actually running underneath. 37:24.960 --> 37:35.960 Right now there is still, we still need some work to get the information from the UEFI 37:35.960 --> 37:41.960 environment into actually choosing the right device to a boot time. 37:41.960 --> 37:46.960 But that's just a technique I see that we should be able to solve. 37:46.960 --> 37:51.960 But I mean people are working on the same problems in the model. 37:51.960 --> 37:53.960 So we'll probably just slip steam on that. 37:53.960 --> 37:58.960 Yeah, that would be great because also for the maintainers of the OS. 37:58.960 --> 37:59.960 Really bad thing. 37:59.960 --> 38:01.960 And another last question. 38:01.960 --> 38:05.960 The high-five premier P550. 38:05.960 --> 38:08.960 I saw that it has the H extensions. 38:08.960 --> 38:09.960 Yes. 38:09.960 --> 38:11.960 That's it to work. 38:11.960 --> 38:12.960 Yeah. 38:12.960 --> 38:14.960 So that's what I was talking about earlier. 38:14.960 --> 38:18.960 My colleague has tried it out and he got it working. 38:18.960 --> 38:25.960 But it's not really advertised because I'm told that there is some slight hardware issues 38:25.960 --> 38:29.960 where it's not quite up to the final spec. 38:29.960 --> 38:35.960 So maybe we need some software work around or maybe it's not possible. 38:35.960 --> 38:39.960 And not exactly sure the state is, but you can make it work at least. 38:39.960 --> 38:45.960 Yeah, I saw a lot both by 3BSD team with the D-Hive that also made it work somewhere. 38:45.960 --> 38:46.960 Yeah. 38:46.960 --> 38:47.960 Okay. 38:47.960 --> 38:50.960 Looking forward to see something that has gave them enabled. 38:50.960 --> 38:52.960 Yes, me too. 38:52.960 --> 38:53.960 Thanks. 38:54.960 --> 39:00.960 What question based on your personal experience? 39:00.960 --> 39:06.960 So I've seen comments from Qualcomm because it was like that asked for our ISR changes 39:06.960 --> 39:09.960 to build more micro architectural efficient prefetchers. 39:09.960 --> 39:12.960 I guess it was limiting the variance of instruction length. 39:12.960 --> 39:18.960 So you as a software guy did you also come up with some things you found awkward in the ISR specification 39:18.960 --> 39:22.960 that yeah, if you change it like that and that I might have an easier life 39:22.960 --> 39:28.960 or it would be much easier to get you to Linux and channel running. 39:28.960 --> 39:31.960 Not really. 39:31.960 --> 39:41.960 Not something that's not been discussed to many times before and where my opinion has just as many arguments against it. 39:41.960 --> 39:44.960 Just a quick question. 39:44.960 --> 39:46.960 My own experience. 39:46.960 --> 39:50.960 I've got a star 64 board and a couple of rocks here. 39:50.960 --> 39:54.960 Yeah, our board. 39:54.960 --> 40:02.960 So for the same clock speed and number of calls the star 64 seems to be half as performance. 40:02.960 --> 40:03.960 Yeah. 40:03.960 --> 40:07.960 Is that a fundamental hardware thing or is it just optimization? 40:07.960 --> 40:08.960 Is it going to catch up? 40:08.960 --> 40:15.960 So that's also what I was hoping to get out of this is that I want you to understand that. 40:15.960 --> 40:18.960 That because one chip is really slow that not mean that risk 5 is slow. 40:18.960 --> 40:22.960 Like risk 5 is just the PDFs that describe the instructions. 40:22.960 --> 40:30.960 The calls and the size of the twin sisters is usually what matters most in performance. 40:30.960 --> 40:42.960 And I know that for these 1971-10 the memory controller is not as fast as it should be. 40:42.960 --> 40:52.960 So that's maybe why you see that they are like the same clock speed but feels slower. 41:03.960 --> 41:04.960 Hey, thank you for the talk. 41:04.960 --> 41:10.960 This is about CPUIDs like instruction on X86 you have something like that. 41:10.960 --> 41:13.960 I have lately been working on arm. There's nothing like that. 41:13.960 --> 41:16.960 The question is about CPUDiscoverability. 41:16.960 --> 41:20.960 I've learned from a colleague who has been working on risk 5 much longer. 41:20.960 --> 41:22.960 Enable risk 5 and pedora. 41:22.960 --> 41:24.960 Research Jones. 41:24.960 --> 41:28.960 Risk 5 seems to be picking up some of the bad patterns from arm. 41:28.960 --> 41:32.960 And also someone else also in the absolute communities. 41:32.960 --> 41:33.960 Yeah. 41:33.960 --> 41:35.960 That's what we're testing of things. 41:36.960 --> 41:39.960 So people to not make this kind of mistakes. 41:39.960 --> 41:43.960 That's one and CPUID style instruction. 41:43.960 --> 41:45.960 And there's no instruction. 41:45.960 --> 41:47.960 I know there's nothing I've decided. 41:47.960 --> 41:52.960 But we do have, it's called CSRs, like special registers you can read from. 41:52.960 --> 41:56.960 And then you can get the ID of the arms. 41:56.960 --> 41:59.960 But yeah, it doesn't describe the board. 41:59.960 --> 42:03.960 So it's not enough to replace device trees. 42:04.960 --> 42:06.960 It's a bit of a mess on arm. 42:06.960 --> 42:08.960 Like the context is about CPU models. 42:08.960 --> 42:10.960 A bunch of CPU models for QMU. 42:10.960 --> 42:12.960 Enable immigration. 42:12.960 --> 42:15.960 So an arm, it is very tricky to get this. 42:15.960 --> 42:17.960 No such thing as CPU model. 42:17.960 --> 42:19.960 It's like a bag of discreet. 42:19.960 --> 42:20.960 It's a few ID. 42:20.960 --> 42:21.960 Yeah. 42:21.960 --> 42:23.960 So that's it. 42:23.960 --> 42:24.960 Thank you. 42:24.960 --> 42:26.960 In that regard, risk 5 is very much. 42:26.960 --> 42:27.960 Yeah. 42:27.960 --> 42:28.960 Hi. 42:28.960 --> 42:29.960 Thanks for the talk. 42:29.960 --> 42:30.960 I was curious. 42:30.960 --> 42:34.960 If you are aware of any, it is 5 GPUs on the market. 42:34.960 --> 42:38.960 Risk 5 CPUs on the market. 42:38.960 --> 42:42.960 GPUs on the market. 42:42.960 --> 42:46.960 I mean, you can buy a modern Nvidia card. 42:46.960 --> 42:53.960 And it has like three different kinds of risk 5 processors inside. 42:53.960 --> 42:57.960 Like some of them has like a whole operating system running. 42:57.960 --> 42:59.960 Like written in Ada. 42:59.960 --> 43:03.960 Just to manage all the requests it gets. 43:03.960 --> 43:07.960 So you can have like split out your graphics card to virtual machines. 43:07.960 --> 43:15.960 That's a whole talker from on that from the risk 5 conference in Santa Clara last year. 43:15.960 --> 43:20.960 But yeah, it's not something you can directly program yourself. 43:20.960 --> 43:26.960 But if you download the firmware for the Nvidia cards, you can also see that those risk 5 instructions. 43:27.960 --> 43:37.960 Yeah, I was wondering if you were aware about some hardware risk 5 IR advanced data protection implemented. 43:37.960 --> 43:39.960 Oh, there's a news. 43:39.960 --> 43:43.960 Are you talking about a new standard for how the software controller is working? 43:43.960 --> 43:44.960 Yeah, I don't know. 43:45.960 --> 43:47.960 Sorry. 43:53.960 --> 43:57.960 Hello, can you talk a little bit about RA23? 43:57.960 --> 43:58.960 Yes. 43:58.960 --> 43:59.960 All right. 43:59.960 --> 44:03.960 So lastly, I probably should have had a slide on this. 44:03.960 --> 44:05.960 So this is an interesting question. 44:05.960 --> 44:08.960 Because the risk 5 foundation. 44:08.960 --> 44:11.960 In order to manage all these different extensions, 44:11.960 --> 44:19.960 like it'll be really hard to when you're distribution like Ubuntu to figure out which extensions do we actually compile for? 44:19.960 --> 44:21.960 And which don't we? 44:21.960 --> 44:28.960 So the risk 5 foundation has tried to help all of us distributions by making the RVA. 44:28.960 --> 44:30.960 What are they called? 44:30.960 --> 44:33.960 RVA 23 is the latest one. 44:33.960 --> 44:36.960 What are they called specifications or what are they called? 44:36.960 --> 44:37.960 Profiles. 44:37.960 --> 44:38.960 That's the word. 44:38.960 --> 44:39.960 Yes. 44:40.960 --> 44:49.960 And Ubuntu, we have already said that the next LCS relief release will compile everything for RVA 23. 44:49.960 --> 44:55.960 So that means that in order to run the next release of the next LCS release of Ubuntu, 44:55.960 --> 45:04.960 you'll need a chip that has vectors, vector crypto and all the other extensions that are in the RVA 23 profile. 45:05.960 --> 45:14.960 So that means that all the hardware I'm showing you here will not be meant to run the latest LCS release of Ubuntu. 45:14.960 --> 45:18.960 Is the rock hanging waste work that you can buy now? 45:18.960 --> 45:19.960 Nope. 45:19.960 --> 45:29.960 So that's why I'm really hoping that we'll see some hardware for 26 that actually supports the full RVA 23 profile. 45:35.960 --> 45:45.960 But yeah, I mean it's a necessary step because vectors are important for people doing servers and also just graphics for your mobile phone. 45:45.960 --> 45:50.960 So we'll have to upgrade the baseline for a risk 5 at some point. 45:50.960 --> 45:57.960 And we've chosen to do it maybe a bit early, but it's gone, I mean other distributions will have to follow the engine. 45:57.960 --> 46:02.960 And we don't, simply don't have the resources to do like two versions of Ubuntu for a risk 5. 46:02.960 --> 46:08.960 And I take it this target profile also as the virtualization extension or not yet. 46:08.960 --> 46:10.960 Yes. 46:10.960 --> 46:15.960 Yes, that's it. 46:15.960 --> 46:16.960 Thank you.