WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:12.140 I folks, good morning, happy to see that people made it out of Brussels to stroke 00:12.140 --> 00:24.440 office or going around in the room, brings back happy memories of, it's not working, it's 00:24.440 --> 00:31.440 like, brings back memories of, of Boston 2018 when we presented the study that I'm talking 00:31.440 --> 00:37.800 about now, so this is like regurgitating, you could have already seen that talk, but perhaps 00:37.800 --> 00:48.440 you did, perhaps you did not, why did we get that stage? Well, we did the study, I worked 00:48.440 --> 00:52.080 for a foundation called Annellette Foundation, we were started in the 1980s in the same place 00:52.080 --> 00:57.720 where Python was created, where the first scripted payment systems were devised, a small 00:57.720 --> 01:04.920 research facility in the Netherlands, and later we became a public benefit organization and 01:04.920 --> 01:12.920 we started funding people that do free-nope or software, open standards, open data, everything. 01:12.920 --> 01:19.920 And together with another company, you may have heard of their famous for their hype cycle, 01:19.920 --> 01:26.920 they also do research, and we did a study for the European Commission, because at the 01:26.920 --> 01:34.600 time it was five years after Snowden, we kind of gathered, we needed to do something. 01:34.600 --> 01:43.720 So there was ongoing research on internet protocols and how to renovate, but it really needed 01:43.800 --> 01:53.520 to be renewed. So in order to do that, a plan was to file, and we were asked to do that plan 01:53.520 --> 02:00.520 or actually there was a tender to do that plan, and we took up the glove and made it happen. 02:00.520 --> 02:07.440 And so the plan of this talk is to quickly take you back to eight years ago, or seven 02:07.520 --> 02:14.960 years ago, explain what was the thinking at the time, and then forward to where we are now. 02:14.960 --> 02:21.840 So this is how we explained people, the first-generation internet, this is from a, from 02:21.840 --> 02:28.080 a sitcom called the IT crowd, and they have a little box that says the internet, and somebody 02:28.080 --> 02:36.400 breaks the internet, and people don't have an idea what the internet is. It is truly a galactic 02:36.480 --> 02:42.000 thing. This is a rendering of all the network connections and all the networks. It's already 02:42.000 --> 02:48.480 very old one. It's got a way we were more complex and it's all kinds of independent networks 02:48.480 --> 02:53.200 that glue together. So it's not a coherent professional infrastructure. It's just some of 02:53.200 --> 02:59.840 many independent things, and there's some things that are glue components that are bolted 02:59.920 --> 03:06.960 on top. There's internet exchanges. These, these sit somewhere in the network, and people 03:06.960 --> 03:12.080 exchange their traffic. There's name servers that you can ask where is the other computer. They're 03:12.080 --> 03:19.600 spying equipment owned by various people, all kinds of CDNs, and all kinds of things. But essentially, 03:19.600 --> 03:26.640 every node is just a node in an independent network. And it's really layered. So there's physical 03:26.720 --> 03:32.080 connections. There's standards. There's a lot of code running on it. A lot of hardware, 03:32.080 --> 03:39.120 and it meanwhile, now it's 50 years old. So when you want to change that, when you want to touch 03:39.120 --> 03:44.560 the core of the internet, it means billions of billions of changes need to be made, and that needs 03:44.560 --> 03:50.080 to be happening in a quite a coordinated fashion. And it needs to happen in things that 03:50.080 --> 03:56.560 different never changed. So that's a bit of a thing. So at the time we've positioned this, 03:56.560 --> 04:01.840 as this is kind of a moonshot, plus, plus thing. So these days, we have the billionaires saying 04:01.840 --> 04:10.240 we go to Mars. That might be as insane as trying to change the internet, but changing the internet 04:10.240 --> 04:15.680 is way more useful. It is the largest and most complex thing that we've ever done, as my 04:15.680 --> 04:21.760 plan can. And we need to change it with all these people on board. And they bitch, if there's 04:21.760 --> 04:28.960 a 10 second downtime in their TikTok video stream. So this is hypothetical stakes, high economic 04:28.960 --> 04:35.920 stakes, highly critical users. It's overloaded with expectations from everybody. So we need to, 04:35.920 --> 04:41.600 well, if you want to do this kind of research, we need to focus on what is mission critical. So 04:41.680 --> 04:48.240 the design goals that we had was we wanted to create the main vision document for this next 04:48.240 --> 04:52.640 generation internet initiative. The commission was not sure how much money was going to go in there, 04:52.640 --> 05:02.480 but we needed to have a point where we could reference, then make sure that, well, the assignment 05:02.480 --> 05:09.040 was make sure that we know what to fund. So the key funding priorities and then create a roadmap 05:09.040 --> 05:19.200 to, for things to happen. And well, how do you measure success with that? Well, the goal is to 05:19.200 --> 05:27.120 create technologies that are free, interoperable and open, and that we learn from previous things 05:27.920 --> 05:35.920 and that we make sure that we understand how the whole system works. And well, it was a beast of 05:35.920 --> 05:43.680 an effort. We spent a lot of time doing expert workshops going around doing a circus of 05:43.680 --> 05:52.960 various communities, so the internet exchanges, the domain in people, the digital rights community, 05:52.960 --> 05:59.200 the free no resource communities, etc. So they're all tapping into what they were doing and asking 05:59.200 --> 06:05.280 them what is broken on the internet, what do we need to tackle? And of course, then there's a whole 06:05.360 --> 06:10.800 pipeline of things that we're supposed to happen. So engaging these communities was, I guess, 06:10.800 --> 06:18.560 a new thing, because normally it was consulting companies that were making a discrete report, 06:18.560 --> 06:25.760 you get 300,000 euros, you sit down, you write something, and then it happens. But we want to do 06:25.760 --> 06:31.280 differently. So we went to all of these communities to their events, talked to the people, 06:31.920 --> 06:37.840 and we got also input from a number for the member states, just to get coverage on what needed to 06:37.840 --> 06:45.680 happen. And well, that ended up with a vision, and this vision is kind of the beacon that which 06:46.800 --> 06:56.320 we tried to structure the whole report is that it's really important that we change things now 06:56.320 --> 07:00.960 that we get a solid basis because we might be stuck with it for a thousand years. So people don't 07:01.040 --> 07:11.200 realize that the phone system was devised in the 1850s, and we stuck with that for well over one 07:11.200 --> 07:17.440 and a half centuries before we got to dissolve it. If we don't dissolve the internet with all 07:17.440 --> 07:23.600 its broken things, and at the time I gave the anecdote that one of the inventors of the internet 07:24.720 --> 07:28.320 of in-serve came to the Netherlands to the scientific council of the Netherlands government. 07:28.400 --> 07:34.560 Talk to our prime minister, talk to our ministry of economics, affairs, and ministry of defense, 07:34.560 --> 07:40.640 I think, and two other ministers, and in this meeting he said, you know, when I devised the 07:40.640 --> 07:46.160 internet protocol straight after the NSA came to me, he said, the internet, your internet protocol is 07:46.160 --> 07:52.960 not secure, but well, design another one for us and don't tell the others. And that's in the 07:53.920 --> 08:01.440 70s. So the back doors are the weaknesses, the open back was there from the beginning, 08:01.440 --> 08:06.000 and people were just not designing for it. And this is what we put our kids on, this is what we put 08:06.000 --> 08:12.320 our infrastructure on, and it's not has not fundamentally changed. So if we want to change that, 08:12.320 --> 08:17.520 we need to make sure that not only do we change it, but also we make it more at a human scale. 08:17.520 --> 08:25.920 So that it can be something that everybody can can securely live on. And of course, the first thing 08:25.920 --> 08:33.040 is to do the internet is very fragile. We've seen over and over again, that things they stay up 08:33.040 --> 08:39.600 miraculously, but that is because we've over-provisioned, but if somebody wants to really harm 08:39.600 --> 08:46.720 things, you can bring down these wrong ideas that the internet is very robust. Well, if cloud 08:46.720 --> 08:52.400 fair goes down, or if some big providers go down, all of a sudden none of your infrastructure 08:52.400 --> 08:57.120 works, because there's a cascading dependency, and it happens to work right now, but it will not. 08:57.120 --> 09:02.560 So we need to increase resilience. The second thing is there's a lot of components, and I'm talking 09:02.560 --> 09:07.440 for instance again about cloud slayer. They're a man in the middle. They see what you do. They see 09:07.440 --> 09:12.400 your customers and you don't. They know which people are aware. That's why they get to verify 09:12.480 --> 09:17.840 who's a person who is not. They get to probe inside people. We cannot have that. It needs to be 09:17.840 --> 09:24.720 transparent, and we don't have the luxury of allowing people to run opac, bainaries, binaries, that 09:27.760 --> 09:31.680 well, that they control and we don't. So we want to increase this transparency and 09:31.680 --> 09:37.840 trustworthyness. And of course, the openness of the system, we've painfully noticed that if you 09:37.840 --> 09:43.920 leave, say, a social network to a company, that pseudo infrastructure can turn on you and 09:43.920 --> 09:49.920 can become very dangerous. So if we want to create an open environment, we need to make sure that 09:49.920 --> 09:56.960 that we work towards standards. So we did the situation analysis, and we made all these beautiful 10:00.160 --> 10:07.680 theories about what needed to be done. Well, I guess this is the kind of 10:07.680 --> 10:17.040 thing where you talk about an hour and everybody looks at it. And obviously, this is what happens. 10:18.240 --> 10:25.920 These kinds of plans, you make them, but you can make them happen, because that's not how 10:25.920 --> 10:31.200 the world works. The work works with where normal human beings, they have a certain scope of 10:31.280 --> 10:40.640 in which they do things. And you need to respect that. So we went through this machinery, 10:41.360 --> 10:48.560 and our targets was obviously the European Commission, who was the audience for this. They were doing 10:48.560 --> 10:53.520 all kinds of things. So they were doing IoT stuff and thin tech and blockchain and all kinds of 10:53.520 --> 10:59.120 things that we didn't want to bother about, but there's the internet core, and that was our primary 10:59.680 --> 11:11.680 target. And of course, what we wanted to convey at the time was that priority is really important, 11:11.680 --> 11:17.120 because you need to take everything into account. If you try to move a cohort, something is complex 11:17.120 --> 11:22.400 as the internet, and something doesn't move. It's like getting your hair stuck in a machine, 11:22.400 --> 11:28.000 and the machine pulls you in. You need to move everything at the right time, at the right place, 11:28.080 --> 11:35.520 otherwise things are broken or get stuck. So we tried to fit this in with how this, 11:36.480 --> 11:42.000 trying to sell how open source, free open source software fit into policies, and we made these 11:42.000 --> 11:50.160 beautiful diagrams, and M-Mapings in charts and gave research topics, detailing this in great 11:50.240 --> 11:58.720 with great detail, and well, let me forward to do you, because we learned 12:01.600 --> 12:06.800 this Mapsidout. We gave a number of categories where we thought, this is where you 12:06.800 --> 12:10.800 have money. These are the high level things that you need to focus on. Now, 12:11.440 --> 12:21.200 that's where we presented your report, and then the party begins, right? All the kids get started, 12:22.000 --> 12:28.400 start jumping, and we have money, the program start, the money starts flowing, and the European 12:28.400 --> 12:35.440 Commission started putting out these funds. And this is an interesting mechanism, because you have 12:35.440 --> 12:41.440 a plan, you announce what you want to do, you put a pile of money next to it, and then people can 12:41.440 --> 12:48.640 come and ask for it, and you have to find the person you give it to, and then you transfer all 12:48.640 --> 12:57.440 agency to them, and that's a big step. That makes it this a very important step. The people who you give 12:57.520 --> 13:05.360 it to, whether if you can trust them, if they are reliable, if they have the right goals, 13:05.360 --> 13:15.440 because you transfer the agency to those people. In the beginning, NGI wasn't even fully 13:15.440 --> 13:21.600 open source, a free open source software, that only came after it was clearly proven that this 13:21.680 --> 13:30.240 was the better method. And I guess the people that are here have seen NGI or have seen NGI 0, 13:31.920 --> 13:36.240 it's become quite a big effort. It has hundreds of ongoing projects at the moment, 13:37.200 --> 13:43.200 working on a great diversity of technologies, from Braille machines, to feeder composting tools, 13:43.200 --> 13:50.240 to, well, you name it, anything that big tech companies make, there's probably a free open source 13:50.320 --> 13:58.720 alternative in the making within NGI. And this kind of explains that there's a 10 layers going 13:58.720 --> 14:04.560 from really not just the trustworthy hardware, but even the trustworthy tools to create that hardware, 14:05.120 --> 14:11.600 all the way up to things like wiki data, wiki rate, open food facts, 14:12.080 --> 14:22.160 software supply chain, and everything in between. So it's a significant beast. 14:23.920 --> 14:32.160 NGI 0 is our little stake in the ground within that, so there were some tens of programs. 14:32.960 --> 14:38.560 We run six of them, or we are running still a couple of them, they're still ongoing. 14:39.520 --> 14:51.680 And this is kind of the timeline of that. So you see that we started with two programs in the year that the report 14:51.680 --> 15:00.160 was done, and then tile-wise, more programs were added. And that's taken on quite a scale. 15:00.560 --> 15:10.400 If you look at the numbers, then there's hundreds and hundreds of projects, and these are 15:10.400 --> 15:21.200 ranging from things like Macedon, peer to pixel fed, Galline, Libre Office. So as you hear, these are 15:21.200 --> 15:28.000 projects not just early stage, but also sometimes larger projects that already exist, but they 15:28.960 --> 15:36.480 lack a certain functionality. And the thing that we do is we don't just give them money, 15:36.480 --> 15:44.400 we also give them help with a lot of things that you expect things to carry. So you expect things to 15:44.400 --> 15:50.000 be secure. So we have a security company auditing these things, whether they're secure. You expect 15:50.000 --> 15:55.440 them to be accessible to people with disabilities. Obviously, if you're a great cryptographer, 15:55.440 --> 16:00.080 it doesn't mean that you're a really good user interface is or making it accessible. So why do 16:00.080 --> 16:07.360 you expect this for people if you cannot expect it from people? Same goes for legal stuff. 16:07.360 --> 16:13.200 You might be a great hardware expert, but the site to erase the licenses in your repository, 16:13.200 --> 16:18.960 because that's why keep old craft there. So we have all these people looking out 16:19.600 --> 16:25.680 and helping these efforts. We take on these best practices, and we put them in a certain 16:25.680 --> 16:36.000 place, you can look up it in a slides later on. And this is where I guess looking back on a report 16:36.000 --> 16:42.960 that we did sketching out what should be done in 2025, the lesson in humility was the following. 16:43.680 --> 16:51.360 What works best is not us determining what needs to happen. It is giving people the opportunity 16:51.360 --> 16:57.280 to come with problems that they know about, but they have the talent and the time and the skills 16:57.280 --> 17:04.960 to deal with and just allowing them to take it is on. And if people care about a problem, 17:05.520 --> 17:10.560 they get solutions if they care about money, the solutions will never come. 17:10.560 --> 17:18.320 So having a vision actually kind of really worked because we kept it very high level. We didn't 17:18.320 --> 17:23.280 say you want that you have to do blockchain or you have to do AI or you have to do the specific 17:23.280 --> 17:30.240 technology and then sink all the effort into into those. Everybody that yells a certain word 17:30.240 --> 17:39.040 then gets money. All the solutions in there are real. And so it gives us an anchoring point to match 17:39.840 --> 17:47.840 the hype of the day and the problems of the long gone past are still haunting us and put the 17:47.840 --> 17:55.120 weight towards the latter. And there's obviously one important thing that you probably missed. 17:56.560 --> 18:02.640 We love hecticers. And this is a thing which you see my laptop. 18:03.200 --> 18:16.400 This is a side joke that we started. It ran completely out of control. So today we brought 200,000 18:16.400 --> 18:25.760 plus hecticers to false them. And it's of course we adhere to the standard. And for us it's 18:25.760 --> 18:31.360 actually also a symbol because if you remember the old laptops that people used to have 18:31.440 --> 18:35.680 where every sticker was fighting for dominance, where every sticker was incompatible because 18:35.680 --> 18:41.680 around stickers they overlap or they create gaps. And these things they actually are able to cover 18:41.680 --> 18:48.480 and show that people can coexist. And if a project turns rogue, if all of a sudden, 18:49.120 --> 18:57.120 so for instance we were funding a forged software where the people that were the temporary 18:57.200 --> 19:03.520 stewards of the project for the year decided to take the ownership and put it in the 19:03.520 --> 19:11.440 own company. And so we funded the fork that of the community fork instead. So it's allowing 19:11.440 --> 19:20.400 people to the community dynamically exist and to change their behavior. That's very coexistent with 19:20.480 --> 19:28.640 the idea that we all fit together. So come past our booties are all projects. I guess that shows 19:28.640 --> 19:37.680 the kind of the success for us is the ability to take a whole field and make everybody work together. 19:37.680 --> 19:42.080 There are so many cross connections that we see inside these programs. I'm looking at 19:42.080 --> 19:45.840 some people in the room and I know that they're involved with at least 10 different projects 19:46.640 --> 19:53.440 that they didn't work with before, but they got into touch with them and that it's really 19:53.440 --> 20:01.840 spectacular to see how the compatibility of mind and the willingness to cooperate is eased by having 20:01.840 --> 20:13.840 a funding program like ours. Obviously the programs that do this kind of thing, they can only 20:13.840 --> 20:21.440 have meaning results if they have meaningful challenges and we have inside NJ0 now close to a 20:21.440 --> 20:29.280 thousand projects by our own. I will just zoom in on two of them simply because we got a nice 20:29.280 --> 20:37.920 cartoon of them. So if you think about the problem of Google forms and Microsoft forms, 20:38.080 --> 20:42.880 kids in schools, or if you're an educator at school, they're organizing a field trip, 20:42.880 --> 20:47.840 and you ask somebody, all the kids in your school to report what their medical problems are if 20:47.840 --> 20:52.160 they have psychiatric issues and so on and just put it in a Google forms with that the people 20:52.160 --> 21:02.800 going on school camp know and you put this in another jurisdiction. My heart breaks if you do that, 21:02.880 --> 21:10.000 but it's the common practice in Europe and having a tool simply self-hostible tool that you can 21:10.000 --> 21:16.800 put inside your school or have somebody host in a data center near you like you can put it in 21:16.800 --> 21:22.640 the broom closet and for that data to be close to you I think that's a fundamental capability that we 21:22.880 --> 21:34.560 have. Similarly, a lot of people may have for instance an account on LinkedIn or an account on 21:34.560 --> 21:43.760 some social media and that's the only identity that they are known with. By most of the people 21:43.760 --> 21:50.640 that they are in touch with, if that falls apart, how do you find these people somewhere else? 21:50.640 --> 21:56.000 How do you know if the real Donald Trump is the real Donald Trump when he goes on singing? 21:58.080 --> 22:05.360 So again, providing a tool where you use activity pub in this case, I use a verification 22:05.360 --> 22:13.440 client side so this is the Duke of Key Oxide to make sure that you can find the same person everywhere 22:13.440 --> 22:19.120 so that you have anchors so that we've want, that's robustness. If you want to have 22:19.760 --> 22:24.640 only one anchor, then you go down with that anchor but we have multiple places where we can 22:24.640 --> 22:30.640 find each other and we verify these things and all of the, yeah, we have a thousand projects ranging 22:30.640 --> 22:39.760 from people designing FPGA tools, open hardware FPGA mobile laptop mobile phones mobile laptops 22:40.400 --> 22:46.400 for instance there's a great crowd supply campaign going on right now you can still order this 22:46.400 --> 22:52.480 beautiful open hardware laptop is modular you can take off the camera you can put in FPGA as 22:52.480 --> 23:01.200 a module so you can you can make it run any anything and all of these small efforts if you look at 23:01.200 --> 23:08.160 it at a great distance then you see a whole cloud of activity that would not have easily existed 23:08.880 --> 23:15.120 like that. Now the elephant in the rooms of course you may have heard some people got really 23:15.200 --> 23:26.000 worried that last year the press this was all over the press there was some leaks about the 23:27.920 --> 23:34.160 upcoming plans for the next budget cycle and well there's a next political germ website wrote 23:36.000 --> 23:41.120 the European Union does many good things that nobody notices one of those things is the next 23:41.200 --> 23:47.040 generation internet program but they seem to be set on quietly ending the financial support so a lot of 23:48.480 --> 23:54.480 people got really stressed about it including us of course so that was last year and 23:55.600 --> 24:02.400 well that's kind of still the situation there's no official news yet the negotiations are still pending 24:04.160 --> 24:10.160 but luckily there were a flurry of activity many people signed petitions published documents 24:10.880 --> 24:17.280 and I want to really thank you for doing that because that really helps it really helps if people 24:17.280 --> 24:23.200 get to understand the people that with the people I mean both the people in the member states 24:23.200 --> 24:28.240 and the people inside the the European Commission but have to deal with this kind of thing it really 24:28.240 --> 24:36.400 helps to understand that this is not a program I am not aware of any EC program effort 24:37.280 --> 24:42.000 that has so many support messages from people on the internet just regular people have thought 24:42.000 --> 24:47.760 you have done something useful for me the most of the time is like oh yeah it's there's just 24:47.760 --> 24:53.600 agricultural thing and it costs 10 billion and nobody knows where it went but this is a small amount 24:53.600 --> 25:01.040 of money but a lot of people care and that's really important in the meanwhile of course in other 25:01.040 --> 25:10.160 news the European Commission sued its own data super protection supervisor because they said that 25:10.160 --> 25:16.960 office 365 they could not be using it anymore the USA of course elected the new president this is also 25:16.960 --> 25:23.520 a big thing I guess and there's some big tech company owners that try to metal with the democratic 25:23.520 --> 25:29.520 process is in Europe so I think meanwhile now sovereignty has become a bit more of an issue but of 25:29.520 --> 25:35.120 course we're still in the negotiation phase so the first thing I want to do because I I know this 25:35.120 --> 25:39.120 there's a lot of anxiety for people people come to a say wow this is so horrible because anxiety 25:39.120 --> 25:44.880 is so amazing and this funding will go away and then everything will be horrible and the plan will 25:44.880 --> 25:52.320 crash down we are still in good this this is effects the future there's still significant budget 25:52.320 --> 25:56.800 you can still come to us you can still do your projects we have the money on the bank so don't worry 25:57.760 --> 26:07.040 but obviously in the end it will come and so we we do need to talk to our governments in every 26:07.040 --> 26:15.040 member state and let them know that we care about this kind of thing and another signal that we pick 26:15.040 --> 26:23.520 up is that the name NGI at least last year was on a trajectory to be deprecated so we had a good 26:23.520 --> 26:29.680 run we had a vision there will be something else it may not have the same vision but for us we 26:29.680 --> 26:37.840 will keep that vision because we believe it's a really good one and it also becomes clear that the 26:37.840 --> 26:42.880 name isn't everything if the budget stays there but it's just renamed it slightly we focused 26:44.880 --> 26:50.560 we'll have to work with it but but it won't disappear at least that's that's what it looks like 26:51.440 --> 26:58.160 so now you're probably hoping that I will give you a lot of wisdom on what to do next 26:59.360 --> 27:04.880 well I'll give you the high level content we need to steer out of the shit using our money 27:04.880 --> 27:10.480 and using our brains and using our ethical compass if if some crazy president says I will 27:10.480 --> 27:17.840 loop 500 billion of AI investment don't fall into the trap of all double you down on that that 27:17.840 --> 27:23.440 would be a stupid dick move I personally don't think there's any other realistic move 27:23.440 --> 27:29.920 than to get all the challenges out there so you don't build a European competitor to chip companies 27:29.920 --> 27:37.760 or to cloud companies by putting in a huge political fund asking the obvious non-performing 27:37.760 --> 27:44.960 candidates to take up that money and then run with it you fund the small people and you see what 27:45.040 --> 27:50.800 sticks and you grow them and grow them and invest more in them so for me and GI needs to double 27:50.800 --> 27:59.600 down on budgets and whether or not it's called NGO or not I don't care I do care actually 27:59.600 --> 28:04.080 we'll we'll probably keep the name whatever happens as long as we get money 28:05.520 --> 28:08.160 now we're not our news and there's some interesting opportunity coming up 28:08.480 --> 28:18.000 end of this year everybody in a public sector is gonna have to switch computers so it's the 28:18.000 --> 28:24.000 moment where the music starts again and everybody starts doing the chair dance and we might 28:24.000 --> 28:29.920 lever that this is this is an opportunity people are gonna have to throw away good performing 28:29.920 --> 28:36.320 laptops that are three four years old they're gonna make huge investments it's gonna this is from 28:36.320 --> 28:41.520 the people that's invented something called recall I don't know if people came across that but 28:41.520 --> 28:46.800 recall is when your computer makes a snapshot every so many seconds I think 30 seconds or so 28:46.800 --> 28:52.320 feeds that into a local AI and stores that into a database so you can it knows what you've seen 28:52.320 --> 28:57.440 so you can when you want to know what you see you can ask it what you've seen and of course 28:57.440 --> 29:02.240 everybody that has access to that database can do the same thing and it's supposed to be only you 29:02.240 --> 29:14.240 well we've seen that story before so let's think about the playbook and obviously if NGI cannot do 29:14.240 --> 29:19.360 with research money maybe we can do it with operational money because there's plenty of that 29:19.360 --> 29:27.760 and it's currently not spend very wisely and well if if you're suppliers the people that you 29:27.760 --> 29:37.360 sell say a digital typewriter to you become the richest people on the planet and those people 29:37.360 --> 29:43.200 reach a volume where they're Hector billionaires and start meddling with politics in the world 29:43.200 --> 29:50.480 meeting up in places influencing things maybe that kind of wealth is beyond capitalism that kind of 29:50.480 --> 29:55.680 wealth is a global threat and maybe we should think about how we how we deal with that and certainly 29:55.680 --> 30:04.240 not feed the beast any further um there's this comment nobody ever got fired for buying 30:04.240 --> 30:13.520 Microsoft and I think we should start talk about this because why is this the case and it's 30:13.520 --> 30:17.440 by the way fundamentally known to be not true because there has been a lot of corruption 30:17.440 --> 30:22.640 patience corruption cases for instance in Bulgaria where people were actually fired because well 30:22.720 --> 30:27.920 they bought Microsoft while they shouldn't have they got a lot of money as a private person 30:27.920 --> 30:31.920 and then of course when they were found out at least some of them were caught and put into jail 30:31.920 --> 30:38.320 and fired hopefully so so we can't let's not ever say again nobody ever got fired for buying 30:38.320 --> 30:46.880 Microsoft and let's start turning that around um because we need to foster democracy and 30:47.840 --> 30:57.120 democracy is comes with not creating people that have a surplus of power and a surplus of resources and 30:59.920 --> 31:07.440 we can get software as a service but we cannot get freedom as a service so by outsourcing this critical work of 31:07.680 --> 31:16.720 for instance our office streets in government can you imagine to do negotiations with Trump while 31:16.720 --> 31:22.080 everything you type ends up on his desk you're doing secret negotiations inside the Ministry of 31:22.080 --> 31:30.720 Defense or the Ministry of Economic Affairs and your type getting Office 365 you're sending it 31:30.720 --> 31:40.320 through outlook does that make sense is that what is your estimate of how you will get away with this 31:40.320 --> 31:46.320 so by using the things that are called as a service it's actually a service and we should be careful 31:46.320 --> 31:55.280 of it we hope that European Commission take leadership in this at least we have and that we as a 31:55.280 --> 32:03.600 block economic block but also a cultural block we can resist the gun toting a ease of ease of use 32:04.560 --> 32:13.760 money spending beast and and and and and create a future that is ours and that we own and for me 32:14.880 --> 32:21.440 if I don't have AI tomorrow I think I'll live I think kids will be better off if they can still 32:22.080 --> 32:29.760 five percent of themselves so well this is actually kind of a call let's bring our bids back home 32:29.760 --> 32:39.360 and let's make sure that we tell everybody that is in in some sort of responsibility that we need to 32:39.360 --> 32:44.320 get those things in our back into our own control and this is sovereignty is a very concrete thing 32:44.320 --> 32:49.600 it means that nobody else gets a mess with you and nobody else to get to see what you do it's like 32:49.600 --> 32:54.960 you close the door and it's yours because they'll collaborate because they'll use technologies 32:54.960 --> 33:02.800 but we need those things back home so and with that we circle back this is the thing that 33:04.320 --> 33:10.720 when I came at an outlet foundation this was our motto today we created an editor tomorrow and I think 33:11.360 --> 33:15.280 it's not just the internet anymore it's a society of tomorrow if we don't do this now 33:15.920 --> 33:22.000 if we don't take control and I think the Windows 10 11 as trivial as it sounds that 33:22.000 --> 33:27.600 may be might be the gap that we have when the the radar shield or are they what you call the 33:27.600 --> 33:32.560 invisible shield of the of the machine breaks down we can fly in and bomb the bastard out 33:33.280 --> 33:38.240 so anyway that's that's it let's let's do Q&A though there's any 33:46.160 --> 33:50.160 yeah no there's a okay 33:57.200 --> 34:05.280 hey this is loud I'm Yana is a fitted test you guys funded us and you're doing amazing work 34:05.280 --> 34:12.640 obviously so as first of all I think thank you for what you guys do because you worldwide unique 34:15.360 --> 34:21.680 my question is this I think you're laying out an extremely compelling vision 34:23.040 --> 34:29.280 the level at which an outlet in NGI has sort of operated in terms of the numbers 34:30.240 --> 34:38.080 compared to the level at which you're saying the problem exists is sort of like one to a thousand 34:38.960 --> 34:47.360 that about right how do we connect these two numbers but it's it's extremely different but 34:47.360 --> 34:54.400 but I think and and this is a job that we try to do when we look at a problem we look at every 34:54.400 --> 35:01.840 individual viable a part of it and look at try to see if a solution is viable in the long run 35:01.840 --> 35:06.160 so it can be scaled up so one of the things that the European Commission has been doing is 35:06.800 --> 35:12.800 doing pilots so the project that got 50,000 euros from us all of a sudden gets a factor 35:12.800 --> 35:21.760 hundred more they so they get three to five million euros I think if you do that a hundred times 35:21.760 --> 35:27.360 all the problems are there are many connected problems but they're also fairly isolated problems 35:28.080 --> 35:34.720 if you have an open source kernel to work with a skeleton to build a thing around 35:35.360 --> 35:41.200 or a seed to grow I don't know which metaphors the right one but it gives you something 35:41.200 --> 35:47.440 viable there's life in it there it activity pub as an ecosystem for instance it can work it can 35:47.440 --> 35:53.200 actually deliver so we need to work on UX so we need to make sure that installing the software is 35:53.200 --> 35:59.200 easier so we need to work on interoperability but those are things that we can systematically do so 35:59.200 --> 36:06.480 it's and I think one of the design choices is to be human scale so if there's a guy 36:06.880 --> 36:12.960 called Johannes that knows how to do a certain thing you could give that guy Johannes a year of work 36:12.960 --> 36:20.400 or six months of work and then that person can tackle the problem if he needs another help 36:20.400 --> 36:26.160 he can get another person to work with him but it's weird if we're thinking about it's this is 36:27.120 --> 36:36.000 an army of empowered individuals collaborating on large things and I think we cannot imagine 36:36.560 --> 36:44.480 or we should not the the factor 100 I would say it's more realistic can actually come from other 36:44.480 --> 36:51.520 people saying hey this is useful I want to use a form server and in my government we think this is 36:51.520 --> 36:58.400 important so why don't we pay for getting the UX up the speed why don't we get one of our engineers 36:58.400 --> 37:06.160 to work on this so society is well this and this is cost acceptance you see you you create a fire 37:06.160 --> 37:13.600 starter from there on the fire should be well fire it should it should spread and the first community 37:13.600 --> 37:21.120 we cannot pay everybody that does us and nor should you because people have responsibility of their 37:21.120 --> 37:28.240 own to solve their own problems but we can create these fires left and right and make sure that 37:28.240 --> 37:34.560 well if there's a forest fire what you need to do is preemptively set fire to some things in the 37:34.560 --> 37:44.000 controls fashion so you create a corridor where a fire cannot jump across it's maybe that's a 37:44.000 --> 37:51.440 good metaphor we need to make sure that we we first contain the problem stop even more 37:51.440 --> 37:58.720 governments going to the cloud stop using getting deeper into software that we don't understand 37:58.720 --> 38:04.880 and then from at the same time build things that can well replicate because that's a beautiful thing 38:04.880 --> 38:10.400 about three-nope or software it replicates beautifully at almost zero cost and I think there's a 38:11.280 --> 38:22.320 solution a single Macedon or go to social instance will not beat X but a hundred million will 38:23.120 --> 38:29.440 and I'm convinced of that that fact that by showing what can be done and giving people the tools to do it 38:30.640 --> 38:37.760 another good example is is efferoid so efferoid is an app store and unlike Google play 38:38.480 --> 38:43.680 if you have an app you need somebody and you show the app you can actually give the app to the 38:43.680 --> 38:49.600 person there's no app store needed so they are an app store but they don't want to be needed they 38:49.600 --> 38:56.160 create inside their app the app store isn't app itself they create a tool to give you other people 38:56.160 --> 39:03.440 apps and so you make infrastructure that is designed to not be needed and I think that mechanism 39:03.520 --> 39:08.560 those that kind of thinking that can help scale enormously because then the the word of mouth 39:08.560 --> 39:15.600 and the the feet of the people can can can go anywhere go places where you don't have 39:15.600 --> 39:20.800 internet connectivity you're out there somewhere in Italy walking on a mountain you meet a person 39:20.800 --> 39:25.520 you have a nice chat and you get the app instead without internet connectivity so 39:26.320 --> 39:31.920 I guess it's the long haul we don't get the easy wind of let's create a local champion 39:32.000 --> 39:38.160 but a local champion will be bought we had arm in Europe now it's soft bank and 39:39.440 --> 39:45.360 all these things that you think we can we can have a shot at claiming this thing destroy the business 39:45.360 --> 39:51.680 model commoditized to hell and just take back ownership email for instance is one of these things 39:51.680 --> 39:59.040 that still is alive despite their being is being forced on U.F.A. by a Google phone you have to 39:59.040 --> 40:03.360 take their email account while you already have that email account and still people are 40:03.360 --> 40:09.840 persistently creating new email tools they're creating innovation they're creating I wouldn't 40:09.840 --> 40:17.040 ever use a Gmail or mail account and I can it's perfectly logical for people and feasible 40:17.040 --> 40:21.600 for people to do this so I think if we can create robust mechanisms that people can sell 40:21.600 --> 40:27.440 for dots and at least be autonomous with then we can be sort of the refugee camp for when the 40:27.440 --> 40:32.720 shit hits the fan for the other people that have gone all in on the other technologies I don't 40:32.720 --> 40:38.720 know let's let's let's wind up 40:45.360 --> 40:52.640 yeah again thank you Miguel for all course the work you guys do yeah big fan so I wanted to ask 40:52.640 --> 40:59.280 about the windows thing now right so in October when all the windows can and live in like 40:59.280 --> 41:08.240 everybody has to move who has a laptop so kiddies running a big campaign as to move what would 41:08.240 --> 41:14.400 be the solution to let's stop the evas people throwing away their laptops and buying new ones right 41:15.040 --> 41:21.040 and there's a lot of projects that you guys have run in the past right that also help in that effort 41:21.680 --> 41:27.440 postmarko where's and everything that you guys have supported so do you think at least for the 41:27.440 --> 41:33.840 authorities people in europe and union who make these kinds of decisions right can you can 41:33.840 --> 41:39.600 at an internet or NGO you can run this kind of a campaign show them that you know these are 41:39.600 --> 41:47.120 the projects that can help stop all this evas up to October and you know this is one initiative 41:47.120 --> 41:53.520 that is the next resort when this happens right do you think we can combine and put in and 41:53.520 --> 41:59.680 bring it towards their authorities I think I think we can the most important thing is to have 41:59.680 --> 42:05.520 awareness and one of the nice things about NGO is that there's some unique vantage points where 42:05.520 --> 42:09.680 you see a lot of things together I people tell me like I don't search the internet want to know 42:09.680 --> 42:13.840 something cool I first go to a nail-lit website I look at the projects if there's something 42:13.920 --> 42:21.760 there are notes vetted it works there's it's being monitored and it's up to date and only then I go 42:21.760 --> 42:29.040 so there's a critical point a critical mass starting to create and that's why we shame 42:29.040 --> 42:36.000 if the fire buys down because there's no fuel anymore NGO has become a hotspot of of aligned 42:36.000 --> 42:43.680 people that are able to collaborate and projects are reinforcing each other and people tell me that 42:43.680 --> 42:48.400 they call other projects and saying hey I'm I'm from this project and the doors open wider 42:48.400 --> 42:54.400 then that would if that would have been a cold call so doing campaigns together is a logical 42:54.400 --> 42:59.280 extension we don't yeah we're not a PR machine you know this we we stick to hex stickers 42:59.840 --> 43:08.880 help unintended but doing campaigns I'm doing awareness together surely we can we can rally 43:09.840 --> 43:15.840 people and if there's something happening we can send people to where it's happening so I 43:15.840 --> 43:22.640 think that can be done but yeah it's it's a complex proposition because you may have a solution 43:22.640 --> 43:28.880 direction but doing this for hundreds of millions of people is actually operational support 43:28.880 --> 43:36.400 and operational support is one of the things where we would love to do it but it's an order of magnitude 43:37.360 --> 43:41.440 higher or two orders of magnitude higher than our budgets allow us to go and it's not allowed to 43:41.440 --> 43:48.560 our budgets so so hopefully the new Euro Commissioner of the Qunan who is responsible for digital 43:48.560 --> 43:55.760 sovereignty allocates some budget to digital sovereignty and it's all about consistency 43:57.360 --> 44:03.840 so if you do a proposal at the NellNet you can use open document format or PDF if I submit a 44:03.840 --> 44:12.480 proposal to the EC I have to use word I literally get refused when and there's there's been 44:12.480 --> 44:17.680 statements about this from the Commission a decade ago so no we do the open standards thing 44:17.680 --> 44:23.120 but it's consistency if you do is if you say you do a standard you do a standard if there's a proprietary 44:23.120 --> 44:30.320 product you you you you make sure that you don't favor the people that go the wrong way so 44:30.400 --> 44:34.720 anyway that's wasn't even an answer it was an add-on you get it for free next question 44:36.320 --> 44:43.360 hi I'm a student from the Czech Republic and I'm deeply interested in open source 44:43.360 --> 44:52.240 and bringing the future you've described together but at the same time I have never heard of you 44:52.240 --> 45:02.960 at Buntel now I've only got into this talk because I was in the hallway and I have never seen 45:04.080 --> 45:11.040 outcomes of your work even though it seems like you do a lot of very good things so if two linked 45:11.040 --> 45:20.160 questions how can I change that how can I change so more people know about this so what can I do 45:20.160 --> 45:28.400 to help and yeah that's the other question what can I personally as a lowly student do to help 45:28.400 --> 45:35.600 your efforts and to bring this wonderful future forth so so in your your very personal concrete 45:35.600 --> 45:40.800 situation talk to the people from Bruno University or talk to the person next to you because she's 45:40.960 --> 45:49.520 a country ambassador for NGI zero essentially what we need to do spread the word and create 45:49.520 --> 45:56.000 mechanism and stickers take a lot of stickers home no but I guess the thing we we live by word of 45:56.000 --> 46:01.840 mouth we're small foundation we're 11 people we do a lot we do hundreds of projects in 60 countries 46:01.920 --> 46:11.920 but we don't advertise because that's not within our remit so what we ask projects leave a 46:11.920 --> 46:19.520 small trail to us so when you see the repo you see funded by NL at NGI zero and there's a link 46:19.520 --> 46:25.760 to it you click on it and then you end up in Nirvana you find lots of other cool things and at least 46:25.760 --> 46:29.680 after if you've seen it if you don't click the link but you've seen it a couple of times then you think 46:29.680 --> 46:34.080 maybe my project is suitable for that as well because there's the same vein maybe they're crazy 46:34.080 --> 46:41.200 enough to fund me as well this all about we our funding is very much in the early phase so people 46:41.200 --> 46:46.880 in your age category age bracket so to say where they have to make a choice and later on they can 46:46.880 --> 46:51.680 start a business I mean Frank Arley check or from next cloud or other people that have established 46:51.680 --> 46:56.720 business and have a huge team of course they operate at a different scale but we still try to 46:57.680 --> 47:02.720 keep a feel with that but the people that we're aiming for the people are still happy with 5,000 Euro 47:02.720 --> 47:08.320 grant to deliver to solve a problem if you know people that solve the best thing you can do is 47:08.320 --> 47:14.160 if you know people doing something useful go to the and you see them struggling with I don't have 47:14.160 --> 47:20.640 time to do this or help them write an application it takes an hour or so but for a lot of people that's 47:20.800 --> 47:26.960 very high burden and then there's a political thing talked to your national contact point send them 47:26.960 --> 47:32.800 a message saying hey there's a lot of stuff happening in Europe but this is something I care about 47:32.800 --> 47:38.160 because they get the handful of messages it's it's it's like the school paper they are supposed to 47:38.160 --> 47:45.440 sit in a meeting represent their country and there's 100 people contact them out of which 95 or 47:45.440 --> 47:51.920 lobbyists from local companies if we can double that number by having 100 hackers contact them 47:53.120 --> 48:00.240 that means that we over represent perhaps our importance in society but it's for a good cause so 48:00.240 --> 48:08.400 maybe that's a that's a practical hint I think this is the last question anyone 48:15.840 --> 48:29.840 thank you for your clear insane vision of the next generation internet and I want to add one thing 48:29.840 --> 48:36.400 I think the next generation internet may be one of the non experts being active participants 48:37.280 --> 48:40.560 so currently we have an internet of non 48:45.920 --> 48:54.320 the next act to have their own bits under their own agency and not having to become an expert not 48:54.320 --> 49:03.040 having to become root not having to know how to petition a disk and this is a still a big big challenge 49:03.040 --> 49:11.520 how can you operate services with own full agency without having to be an expert and without 49:11.600 --> 49:17.600 having to trust an expert that is such a good question it's so opportune because you remind 49:17.600 --> 49:22.480 me of a thing that we put in in the original study and this is now materialized in something 49:22.480 --> 49:30.000 called fediversity or is materializing which is a concept of service portability so a lot of people 49:30.000 --> 49:36.400 have their their own domain name and they go to a host and company and then they get a WordPress 49:36.400 --> 49:42.240 install and get email and so on or they've done that 10 years ago or 20 years ago and they're 49:42.240 --> 49:46.320 still stuck with it because we don't have service portability so as soon as you have to edit the 49:46.320 --> 49:52.480 DNS you're done and what we're trying to create is a hosting in a box that makes it possible for 49:52.480 --> 49:57.200 people say no I don't like you anymore or I want that service and just click on the icon 49:57.200 --> 50:03.200 auto configures and it stays up and you can take that configuration with you alive and wherever 50:03.280 --> 50:11.680 and it's always optimist often it's declaratively configured it's based on Nick sauce but that concept 50:11.680 --> 50:16.240 is indeed deployment deployment deployment deployment making sure that people can get it empowering 50:16.240 --> 50:20.720 people and users to get these technologies because that's the critical problems that they they don't 50:21.680 --> 50:26.560 times up come to the enella booth where we're on the on the second floor 50:26.560 --> 50:30.640 and hi I'll for a great talk