WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:10.000 We are pleased to welcome Bill Mulligan to talk to us about pick-by-project, lessons learned 00:10.000 --> 00:15.000 from interviewing and writing 20 plus end user case studies. Bill Mulligan is a cloud native 00:15.000 --> 00:21.000 pollinator, community builder, and maintainer for psyllium and EBPF.io. He has given talks, 00:21.000 --> 00:25.000 written articles, and appeared on podcasts on a wide range of topics around cloud native 00:25.000 --> 00:30.000 and open source. While at the CNCF, he restarted the Kubernetes community day program, 00:30.000 --> 00:35.000 and he is currently at Isovalent growing the psyllium and EBPF communities. 00:35.000 --> 00:36.000 Welcome, Bill. 00:41.000 --> 00:44.000 Okay, great. Thanks for having me. 00:44.000 --> 00:48.000 Yeah, so pick my project, right? We're all here in open source. We love to have our projects 00:48.000 --> 00:53.000 adopted, and we're here in the community room to talk about how we can have adoption 00:53.000 --> 00:58.000 of open source projects. So I'm actually going to talk, start my talk with a little live demo, 00:58.000 --> 01:01.000 which may be a little bit on common in the community room. 01:01.000 --> 01:06.000 So I'm going to try it out. So obviously, as you know, like main place for social coding, 01:06.000 --> 01:10.000 get hub, and what's the way to create a community on GitHub? 01:10.000 --> 01:14.000 Well, I think the main way people do it is by like going over here to the top right corner 01:14.000 --> 01:19.000 on the fost-down website and clicking the star button, right? We're part of the community now, 01:19.000 --> 01:26.000 and it's growing. This is adoption. Okay, maybe not. It's a little bit of a vanity metric. 01:26.000 --> 01:30.000 You know, and I'm a maintainer of the psyllium projects, bar vanity metric. 01:30.000 --> 01:34.000 We just passed the 20K GitHub stars, but this isn't what I'm talking about, right? 01:34.000 --> 01:37.000 I think all of us in this room know that this isn't what community is. 01:37.000 --> 01:40.000 It's not going on the website and like clicking the little star button. 01:40.000 --> 01:45.000 What community actually is people putting it into production. 01:45.000 --> 01:51.000 So what I'm actually a lot more proud about on the psyllium project is we have 150 public users saying, 01:51.000 --> 01:55.000 like, hey, I'm using psyllium. I love it. Like, this is what I'm using it for. 01:55.000 --> 02:03.000 And 75 of those have written case studies or given talks or written blog posts about how they're actually using the project. 02:03.000 --> 02:06.000 Right? That's what real adoption is. That's what we're all trying to do in open source, 02:06.000 --> 02:10.000 to have people actually using our project and benefiting from it. 02:10.000 --> 02:21.000 But the question that I'm trying to answer in this talk exactly is what is causing all of these end users to actually adopt a cloud native project or an open source project. 02:21.000 --> 02:25.000 Because there's lots of different options, right? 02:25.000 --> 02:28.000 Any solution has lots of different options that we can choose. 02:28.000 --> 02:34.000 And so if we went back to that, if we went back on GitHub, we get to the first thing is the read meat. 02:34.000 --> 02:40.000 This is where a lot of projects talk about what it can do for you. 02:40.000 --> 02:43.000 So on psyllium, I'm going to make fun of our own project. 02:43.000 --> 02:50.000 We talk about almost unlimited scale, deep network monitoring, visibility, highly efficient and flexible. 02:50.000 --> 02:53.000 Right? These are a lot of marketing buzzwords too. 02:53.000 --> 02:57.000 And that's not actually why people are picking either. This is like the high level overview. 02:57.000 --> 03:03.000 So what is it to actually make somebody go from clicking that star to actually downloading your project 03:03.000 --> 03:09.000 and using it? If you take nothing else away from this talk, this is what I want you to know. 03:09.000 --> 03:14.000 A specific end user need and our challenge is what's actually driving the adoption. 03:14.000 --> 03:20.000 When there's a challenge they're trying to overcome in either their personal life, in their company, in their business, 03:20.000 --> 03:24.000 that's what's going to make them download and use their project. 03:24.000 --> 03:27.000 So I'm going to start this talk kind of in two halves. 03:27.000 --> 03:31.000 I'm going to talk about how I've seen that play out in the psyllium project for my own personal experience. 03:31.000 --> 03:36.000 And then I'm going to talk about how you can do that with your own project if you want to grow your community too. 03:36.000 --> 03:41.000 So the lens that I'm going to use for this talk is through case studies. 03:41.000 --> 03:49.000 Now I think case studies are a great way to kind of summarize this whole user journey from clicking the GitHub star all the way to using it in production. 03:49.000 --> 03:55.000 And psyllium has 24 different CNCF case studies that I've helped written. 03:55.000 --> 04:00.000 And I really like them because they have kind of a standardized format to them. 04:00.000 --> 04:07.000 First, there's the challenge, right? This is the end user need that I was talking about that the company or the person is trying to solve. 04:07.000 --> 04:10.000 The second part is the solution. This is where your project comes in. 04:10.000 --> 04:15.000 And the last part is the impact because the impact is really why they're choosing it, right? 04:15.000 --> 04:20.000 They're trying to solve a challenge and the impact is what they're able to do afterwards. 04:20.000 --> 04:27.000 So going through all these 24 different case studies, there's a few top things I've seen people and why they choose the psyllium project. 04:27.000 --> 04:30.000 Number one is performance and scalability. 04:30.000 --> 04:35.000 The second one is network policy. The third one is simplifying their stack. 04:35.000 --> 04:41.000 So service, encryption, observability, multi-cluster and a rich feature set. 04:41.000 --> 04:48.000 So if you're not involved in infrastructure software or don't really care about cloud native, you can kind of tune out for this next section. 04:48.000 --> 04:55.000 But I think you should take away the quotes so you can understand a little bit about how people are thinking about adopting open source projects. 04:55.000 --> 04:58.000 So the first one around performance and scalability. 04:58.000 --> 05:04.000 So Trendall is an e-commerce company based in Turkey, right? It's all about performance for the consumers. 05:04.000 --> 05:07.000 So when people put things in the shopping cart, they can check out right away. 05:07.000 --> 05:13.000 Right? And as they were scaling quickly, they weren't able to keep up with the traffic that they're having. 05:13.000 --> 05:21.000 And so they looked at psyllium because they needed to improve the performance and scalability of their clusters to meet their cost number demand. 05:21.000 --> 05:28.000 Right? And when they switched, they found that they actually had a 40% increase in performance, allowing their customers to check out faster. 05:28.000 --> 05:33.000 Right? So the challenge was, is that they couldn't keep up with customer demand. 05:33.000 --> 05:36.000 Silly, I'm to help them have a more scalable performance network. 05:36.000 --> 05:41.000 And the impact is that they had a better experience for their customers and helped them check out faster. 05:41.000 --> 05:45.000 Right? And that's kind of the lens of how people adopt open source project. 05:45.000 --> 05:50.000 There's a challenge. Your project needs to come in with a solution to that specific challenge. 05:50.000 --> 05:56.000 And then it needs that an actual impact on the business bottom line. So let's run through a few more of these. 05:56.000 --> 06:02.000 Sysnam is a kind of long-crucing website of the Czech Republic. 06:02.000 --> 06:05.000 They were also having problems with performance and scalability. 06:05.000 --> 06:11.000 When they switched to psyllium, they were able to save 72 times the CPU. 06:11.000 --> 06:16.000 Right? And that saved them a lot of money. They were able to reduce the number of servers that they had in their data center. 06:16.000 --> 06:19.000 Right? Great for the business bottom line, the impact that they had. 06:19.000 --> 06:24.000 The next one comes from Bloomberg around network policy. 06:24.000 --> 06:28.000 And so, right? Financial data, they really need to make sure that it's secure. 06:28.000 --> 06:33.000 With Silly, I'm there able to lock down their clusters with host-based policies. 06:33.000 --> 06:39.000 And what that allowed them to do is offer additional features to their customers. 06:39.000 --> 06:42.000 So it wasn't about just keeping their customers data safe, right? 06:42.000 --> 06:47.000 Very important for financial services company, but also adding more value to their customers too. 06:47.000 --> 06:54.000 So it wasn't just an impact today, but it also enabled their business going forward into the future too. 06:54.000 --> 06:59.000 Sysselven is a cloud provider based out of Berlin where I live. 06:59.000 --> 07:02.000 And what Silly allowed them to do is simplify their stack. 07:02.000 --> 07:08.000 Right? As a managed service provider, they're trying to integrate all these different components for their customers. 07:08.000 --> 07:13.000 And every single piece of complexity is more overhead that they need to manage for their customer. 07:13.000 --> 07:21.000 And so what Silly, I'm able to do is rather than having four or five different pieces of software that they're managing to meet their end customers need, 07:21.000 --> 07:24.000 they're just able to have one piece of software, right? 07:24.000 --> 07:31.000 So simplifying the stack and managed service is all about being able to provide software or service efficiently to your customer. 07:31.000 --> 07:37.000 So Silly, I was helping it them making it easier to manage their stack, right? 07:37.000 --> 07:44.000 And this really made them choose, like if we can do something with Silly and versus something else, then we're going to choose to do it with Silly. 07:44.000 --> 07:51.000 Like once you're in there, you're also able to solve additional challenges for your adopters too. 07:51.000 --> 07:57.000 Rubber bank, also here in Europe, they were looking for self service. 07:57.000 --> 08:05.000 I think a lot of people, if you're in platform engineering or something like that, you know, there's a very small team supporting hundreds or even thousands of developers. 08:05.000 --> 08:08.000 And this is exactly the problem that they were having too. 08:08.000 --> 08:13.000 So they had a small team trying to support over 400 teams, right? 08:13.000 --> 08:21.000 And so Silly amount allowed them to automate a lot of their processes so that they didn't need to do all the maintenance on their team, right? 08:21.000 --> 08:28.000 So it saved them a lot of time and allowed them to focus on other business challenges that they had too. 08:28.000 --> 08:36.000 A send.io is a data company based in California and they're really worried about encryption, right? 08:36.000 --> 08:39.000 They need to keep their customer data secure. 08:39.000 --> 08:47.000 And so with Silly, I'm there able to move encryption into the network layer and make that responsible for it. 08:47.000 --> 08:55.000 And rather than having to make some of their data jobs failed, because encryption was through there, moving into the network later, 08:55.000 --> 09:00.000 the layer helped them make it responsible for that. 09:00.000 --> 09:08.000 On observability, trying to have deep observability into the infrastructure, this is from WSO2, 09:08.000 --> 09:12.000 and they were trying to provide a view to their customers, right? 09:12.000 --> 09:23.000 The customers wanted to know what was going wrong in their infrastructure, how can we kind of like solve the challenges in terms of like errors or latency or different HTTP status codes, 09:23.000 --> 09:28.000 and what Silly and allow them to do is to provide that observability to their customers, right? 09:28.000 --> 09:32.000 So their customers were asking for something and Silly was able to provide it. 09:32.000 --> 09:39.000 Not only did this meet their customers ask, they were actually able to optimize the network traffic of that. 09:39.000 --> 09:43.000 And it allows customers to find out their issues and resolve them, right? 09:43.000 --> 09:48.000 This self-service thing, reducing the demands on the actual business. 09:48.000 --> 09:53.000 Security is a bank based on a Brazil, and data problem with multi-cluster management. 09:53.000 --> 09:56.000 We have this massive IT estate. 09:56.000 --> 10:02.000 How can we possibly provide a consistent networking experience as we're going across multiple cloud providers? 10:02.000 --> 10:06.000 And this was critical for the business strategy going forward. 10:06.000 --> 10:12.000 They wanted to have a multi-club strategy, but they still needed to deliver all of that in a manageable way. 10:12.000 --> 10:20.000 So Silly, like multi-cluster management, came in to allow them to have a consistent networking experience wherever they needed to go. 10:20.000 --> 10:25.000 And this is actually recognized recently by this CNCF technology radar. 10:25.000 --> 10:32.000 So Silly was the most useful and the most mature solution for multi-cluster management based on all the end users, right? 10:32.000 --> 10:37.000 So meeting the challenges that the businesses have today. 10:37.000 --> 10:46.000 But Meltwater was next one, is they were trying to have a richer feature set that they could offer to their customers. 10:46.000 --> 10:53.000 And with Silly, they're able to have more features there too. 10:53.000 --> 10:57.000 And so I kind of alluded to this a little bit earlier, right? 10:57.000 --> 11:04.000 You have the initial challenge, how your project comes in, and the impact that it has on the business. 11:04.000 --> 11:10.000 But once your project is actually installed in there, you want to give them a path forward's a way to continue to believe in your project. 11:10.000 --> 11:16.000 It's not just about today, but it's about tomorrow too, like solving the future challenges, right? 11:16.000 --> 11:20.000 So that's kind of like the simplifying the stock. 11:20.000 --> 11:25.000 You want to be able to set people up for the future too, because they want to believe in your project, not like, 11:25.000 --> 11:33.000 Oh, it's going to be another piece of software that I have to install, upgrade, maintain, but it'll help enable me going forward too. 11:33.000 --> 11:41.000 And then once you kind of have that technical impact, you want to be able to make sure that you can tie this back to an actual business outcome too. 11:41.000 --> 11:45.000 Because that's at the end of the day, once you move outside the technical team, people are going to ask, 11:45.000 --> 11:47.000 Hey, why do we have this piece of software? 11:47.000 --> 11:49.000 Couldn't we do this easier simpler, whatever else? 11:49.000 --> 11:54.000 And being able to explain that in business terms to the actual bottom line is important too. 11:54.000 --> 11:57.000 So one example is around debugging, right? 11:57.000 --> 12:03.000 Going from hours of engineering time to seconds of engineering time, that makes it a lot less expensive, 12:03.000 --> 12:08.000 and you can explain that to the CEO, look at how many person hours that we're saving with this. 12:08.000 --> 12:13.000 Or another example is customers are asking for more sophisticated features, 12:13.000 --> 12:17.000 and with Williams features, we're able to acquire more customers, right? 12:17.000 --> 12:22.000 So increasing revenue there, so either saving cost or increasing revenue. 12:23.000 --> 12:30.000 And the last one is around being able to like change the customer's perception of you. 12:30.000 --> 12:33.000 Being more bought into you, because for example, your performance is much better. 12:33.000 --> 12:39.000 Being able to deliver better experience will make the customers return to you too. 12:39.000 --> 12:45.000 So that's like a high level overview of all the different, some of the different case studies that I've done for Silium. 12:45.000 --> 12:49.000 But I think this room is like probably more interested in how do we actually like create these case studies? 12:49.000 --> 12:55.000 How do we say what your project is doing and encourage other people to adopt your project too? 12:55.000 --> 13:02.000 So now I'm going to walk you through my framework of creating these case studies that kind of like draw out this end user experience. 13:02.000 --> 13:09.000 So if there's a process that I've used a lot from the CNCF, I like to hear too. 13:09.000 --> 13:13.000 So there's the initial proposal. 13:13.000 --> 13:17.000 We do review like creation, editing and publishing. 13:17.000 --> 13:20.000 But let's kind of walk that through step by step. 13:20.000 --> 13:23.000 So the first part is reaching out to different companies. 13:23.000 --> 13:31.000 And I think this is what a lot of things that a lot of open source projects miss is where you're already actually providing value to people. 13:31.000 --> 13:35.000 If they're using your software, they're getting some type of value out of it, right? 13:35.000 --> 13:38.000 And so you can ask for some of that value back in return. 13:38.000 --> 13:42.000 And people are always afraid about like, hey, I don't know. 13:42.000 --> 13:49.000 Like I'm scared of asking people, but like what I've found in my experience, if people are already happy, then they're happy to help you out too. 13:49.000 --> 13:51.000 You know, it's like a two way street. 13:51.000 --> 13:54.000 I think that's one of the cool things about open source too. 13:54.000 --> 13:57.000 So you can see some examples from here in the Selium project. 13:57.000 --> 14:04.000 In our issue template, we ask people if they would like to add themselves to the user doc, right? 14:04.000 --> 14:10.000 So if people are using software, they encounter an issue, then that's a great way you already know they're using the software. 14:10.000 --> 14:15.000 Or on social media, people are like, oh, wow, look at this great thing I'm doing with Selium. 14:15.000 --> 14:17.000 I'm going to be like, hey, would you mind adding yourself to the user doc? 14:17.000 --> 14:19.000 And then I asked them after that. 14:19.000 --> 14:21.000 They'd like to do a case study about it. 14:21.000 --> 14:27.000 Other examples is if you're on an event, like for example, foster them, you see here somebody talking about your software, 14:27.000 --> 14:28.000 then reach out to them. 14:28.000 --> 14:30.000 This is like the schedule from Selium and EDPF day. 14:30.000 --> 14:33.000 I reached out to all these people and asked them if they want to do a case study. 14:33.000 --> 14:37.000 We also do an annual survey, also ask people there, right? 14:37.000 --> 14:43.000 So just be open to asking people, hey, can I have a little bit of the value that I've given you back in return? 14:43.000 --> 14:45.000 I think most people are open to it. 14:45.000 --> 14:51.000 Now once the person says yes, there's a set of, you should set up an interview with them. 14:51.000 --> 14:55.000 And this takes like the same structure as the case study too. 14:55.000 --> 14:59.000 So the first thing is the challenge was your company do. 14:59.000 --> 15:02.000 If it's e-commerce, you know, they're trying to help people check out faster. 15:02.000 --> 15:05.000 If they're trying to be a bank, they're trying to secure your data. 15:05.000 --> 15:06.000 What does your company do? 15:06.000 --> 15:09.000 What is your current IT infrastructure and team look like? 15:09.000 --> 15:12.000 Is it a couple people supporting a lot of people? 15:12.000 --> 15:17.000 Are you trying to observe exactly what's going on in your network? 15:17.000 --> 15:19.000 And what's the challenge that you're having? 15:19.000 --> 15:20.000 Like, what caused you to do this? 15:20.000 --> 15:22.000 Was it like the surging traffic? 15:22.000 --> 15:25.000 Was your multi-cluster strategy? 15:25.000 --> 15:29.000 Was it the encryption that you needed to secure your customer data? 15:29.000 --> 15:33.000 What was the actual thing that caused you to look for something different, right? 15:33.000 --> 15:38.000 Because that's what's going to drive people to adopt an open source project. 15:38.000 --> 15:40.000 The next part is around the solution. 15:40.000 --> 15:46.000 Now that you know you needed something, what were you actually looking for in that solution? 15:46.000 --> 15:47.000 Right? 15:47.000 --> 15:50.000 And this is, I think this is actually the key question is you're going through these case studies. 15:50.000 --> 15:52.000 It's understand about your project. 15:52.000 --> 15:59.000 Because when people are looking for something, it tells you exactly why people would consider your project 15:59.000 --> 16:01.000 and is going to drive further adoption of it. 16:01.000 --> 16:07.000 So I think as you're going through this process, understand what people are actually looking for. 16:07.000 --> 16:13.000 And then what made Seliam or your project, the best choice, what are the solutions that you look at? 16:13.000 --> 16:14.000 Right? 16:14.000 --> 16:20.000 So it gives you a kind of overview of the landscape of different solutions that people are looking at. 16:20.000 --> 16:24.000 I think it's always interesting for me, like what are people actually comparing Seliam to? 16:24.000 --> 16:28.000 And I've heard of wide range of different answers, right? 16:28.000 --> 16:33.000 Because every company's infrastructure is a little bit different. 16:33.000 --> 16:38.000 And the exact challenge that they're trying to solve, there's many ways to do it. 16:38.000 --> 16:42.000 And then on the implementation side, what did this system actually look like? 16:42.000 --> 16:47.000 How did it actually come in and where did it integrate into the rest there? 16:47.000 --> 16:51.000 Like IT infrastructure story and how did they implement the solution? 16:51.000 --> 16:55.000 And then once you have the solution, going to the impact, right? 16:55.000 --> 17:01.000 I think the last part was about understanding the process of how people adopt your software. 17:01.000 --> 17:10.000 And this last part on the impact is talking about how you actually are going to prove that value to other people to encourage them to adopt. 17:10.000 --> 17:15.000 So what's the value that the solution now provides? 17:15.000 --> 17:17.000 How did it change your situation for the better? 17:17.000 --> 17:20.000 And this is actually my favorite question. 17:20.000 --> 17:21.000 What was the outcome for your business? 17:21.000 --> 17:32.000 I think a lot of people don't like to talk about the money, but this is what actually encourages people to demonstrate like to the rest of the company, not just in engineering, whatever else. 17:32.000 --> 17:34.000 What's the business impact on the bottom line? 17:34.000 --> 17:37.000 I think that's one of my favorite questions asked to. 17:37.000 --> 17:39.000 Then finally, what are you playing on doing in the future? 17:39.000 --> 17:41.000 Are they going to continue to grow with your project? 17:41.000 --> 17:45.000 Because it can help direct the future roadmap of the project, too. 17:46.000 --> 17:51.000 A couple tips that I'd have to, one, if you're doing an interview, make sure you record it. 17:51.000 --> 17:54.000 That way you can re-listen to it, pull direct quotes. 17:54.000 --> 17:59.000 I think the quotes are really what helps make these case studies come alive, at least to me. 17:59.000 --> 18:05.000 All the things that you saw in the previous slide were quotes that I have from the case studies. 18:05.000 --> 18:11.000 Use other sources of information, so if they've done a blog, video, a talk, different posts, pull that in too. 18:11.000 --> 18:17.000 And then I think the last part, I think if you're creating a story, think about like a puzzle, right? 18:17.000 --> 18:20.000 You have this set of interview questions, but there's all these different pieces. 18:20.000 --> 18:22.000 It doesn't have to be following through exactly as an interview. 18:22.000 --> 18:25.000 You can be like, oh, this piece is here, this piece is here, let's move these around. 18:25.000 --> 18:30.000 I think that's the fun part about creating the stories, like, a little puzzle that you have to put together. 18:30.000 --> 18:36.000 So then once you actually have it published, it's not just just posted on your website. 18:36.000 --> 18:38.000 You just also promote it and leverage it, too. 18:38.000 --> 18:47.000 So what I do in our project, we make posts on social media, we add it to our newsletter, so people can see it there. 18:47.000 --> 18:54.000 Or think about the other avenues that you have it, maybe you have a Slack channel or other type of chat channel, right? 18:54.000 --> 18:57.000 How can you promote these to the channels that your project has, too? 18:57.000 --> 19:01.000 Because people are calling your projects if they like it. 19:01.000 --> 19:07.000 And then my second live demo in the community room is showing how we actually do this on the silly project, too. 19:07.000 --> 19:10.000 So this is what I was talking about earlier. 19:10.000 --> 19:12.000 We actually have an adopters page, right? 19:12.000 --> 19:16.000 And we say, like, hey, look, these are all the people that have said that they do it. 19:16.000 --> 19:19.000 And if you want to learn, okay, how does eBay use silly them? 19:19.000 --> 19:21.000 Well, you can watch the talk right here. 19:21.000 --> 19:26.000 So people would be like, oh, wow, there's these other companies using my project, using this project, too. 19:26.000 --> 19:27.000 Maybe I should look at it. 19:27.000 --> 19:33.000 And we have this whole page to kind of highlight, look, here's all these people that are using the project. 19:33.000 --> 19:39.000 This is a great way to have a social proof about people actually using your project, right? 19:39.000 --> 19:44.000 But maybe not everybody's going to click into the, like, users page. 19:44.000 --> 19:46.000 They don't really care about that. 19:46.000 --> 19:51.000 So as we're kind of like going through the homepage, you can see we integrated that here. 19:51.000 --> 19:54.000 Once again, the social proof people are using our project. 19:54.000 --> 19:59.000 But then if you go back to what I said at the beginning, people are trying to solve the specific challenge. 19:59.000 --> 20:05.000 So what we did is we actually took these use cases, or we took these case studies and repackaged them into different case studies. 20:05.000 --> 20:10.000 So what people may actually be looking for, they're not looking for, like, oh, I want to silly them, right? 20:10.000 --> 20:14.000 They're going to be like, oh, I need high performance, not working solution. 20:14.000 --> 20:16.000 I need a layer for a load balancer. 20:16.000 --> 20:19.000 Or whatever your project is, you know, trying to solve. 20:19.000 --> 20:26.000 And so, for example, if I click into this layer for a load balancer page, you can see we pulled out different talks. 20:26.000 --> 20:30.000 And then at the bottom here, we've integrated those companies case studies into this. 20:30.000 --> 20:35.000 Once again, showing, like, okay, I am looking for a layer for a load balancer, for example. 20:35.000 --> 20:38.000 One of the companies are using it and what benefits did they see, right? 20:38.000 --> 20:44.000 So once again, like, proving it out and showing that other people have benefited from this too. 20:44.000 --> 20:47.000 And it's not just about, like, this specific challenge. 20:47.000 --> 20:50.000 You can also do things like industries, right? 20:50.000 --> 20:55.000 Different types of industries that are adopting your software are also going to have challenges specific to them too. 20:55.000 --> 21:06.000 So, for example, in financial services, they're going to care a lot about regulation and oversight, compliance, security, right? 21:06.000 --> 21:08.000 And so, speak to those things. 21:08.000 --> 21:15.000 And then you can pull out quotes from those case studies and be like, hey, this is how people in the financial services are benefiting from the software too. 21:15.000 --> 21:16.000 Right? 21:16.000 --> 21:22.000 And then once again, we also provide direct links to those case studies on this page too. 21:22.000 --> 21:29.000 So, if somebody says, like, you know, I'm doing networking in the financial services industry, how do people actually benefit from this? 21:29.000 --> 21:35.000 Well, there's a whole page for them and they can see how other companies benefited too. 21:35.000 --> 21:40.000 So, end of demo too. 21:40.000 --> 21:49.000 So, just to kind of summarize that on the website, add an adopters page, add quotes to the homepage, have that social proof, right? 21:49.000 --> 21:56.000 These case studies are really good things that you should highlight them and use them too. 21:56.000 --> 22:00.000 Once you actually have a couple of case studies written up, you don't even need that many. 22:00.000 --> 22:02.000 Like, start to create use cases pages, right? 22:02.000 --> 22:06.000 From that story is like, like, that's the question I was talking about. 22:06.000 --> 22:08.000 Like, what were you looking for in a solution? 22:08.000 --> 22:09.000 Right? 22:09.000 --> 22:11.000 That's the use cases that you're actually solving you. 22:11.000 --> 22:14.000 The end users are giving you the answer to the questions. 22:14.000 --> 22:17.000 Like, what is your project actually doing in the ecosystem? 22:17.000 --> 22:18.000 Right? 22:18.000 --> 22:23.000 So, you create something like use cases page and be like, here are the specific problems that we're solving. 22:23.000 --> 22:26.000 And then the last part is you can also solve industry vertical pages, right? 22:26.000 --> 22:34.000 So, think about the common industries that are adopting a project like financial services or medium entertainment or telecommunications or whatever else you're doing. 22:34.000 --> 22:40.000 And then you can discuss the common challenges and show how companies are solving those today. 22:40.000 --> 22:43.000 So, in summary, right? 22:43.000 --> 22:50.000 People choose an open source project or really any type of technology because they need to solve an immediate challenge or need. 22:50.000 --> 22:51.000 Right? 22:51.000 --> 22:57.000 A lot of people like to, oh, there's this green field project, but no, like, businesses are trying to solve immediate challenges. 22:57.000 --> 23:00.000 Whether that's, we need better performance for our clusters. 23:00.000 --> 23:03.000 We need to be able to network across multiple clouds. 23:03.000 --> 23:07.000 So, be really clear what is your project the best that? 23:07.000 --> 23:09.000 What use cases are you solving? 23:09.000 --> 23:17.000 And take that information from the case studies and also tell it back being like, this is what our project does. 23:17.000 --> 23:22.000 And this is how other people have used our project to solve that specific challenge. 23:22.000 --> 23:25.000 Make that super clear to your users. 23:25.000 --> 23:28.000 And then, for the case studies, like, don't be afraid, right? 23:28.000 --> 23:31.000 The open source users have already benefited from your project. 23:31.000 --> 23:33.000 They're getting some value out of it. 23:33.000 --> 23:36.000 Don't be afraid to ask for some of that value back. 23:36.000 --> 23:42.000 Once again, that's what I love about open source is that we're all working and trying to benefit and do this together. 23:42.000 --> 23:48.000 And then the last part is really focus on the business outcome and, like, the setup for the future. 23:48.000 --> 23:52.000 Because it's not about just, oh, we saw this technical challenge. 23:52.000 --> 23:55.000 Right? You need to communicate it to everybody else too. 23:55.000 --> 23:59.000 So, we reduced cost. We increased revenue. 23:59.000 --> 24:02.000 You know, we made us more attractive to potential customers. 24:02.000 --> 24:05.000 Because that's ultimately what's going to speak to the rest of the business. 24:05.000 --> 24:11.000 And make sure that your project is seen as a key part of the business going forward. 24:11.000 --> 24:14.000 So, with that, thank you.