WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:07.000 I'm going to hand you this. 00:07.000 --> 00:09.000 Hello. 00:09.000 --> 00:10.000 Hello. 00:10.000 --> 00:12.000 And now we welcome Carolina. 00:12.000 --> 00:14.000 Thank you. 00:14.000 --> 00:17.000 Thank you so much for going to that show. 00:17.000 --> 00:18.000 Wow. 00:18.000 --> 00:24.000 I'm going to start by saying I'm really nervous and excited at the same time. 00:24.000 --> 00:26.000 It's my first for them. 00:26.000 --> 00:28.000 Both as an attendee and as a speaker. 00:28.000 --> 00:34.000 So I'm really grateful for all of you to stay for that for that talk. 00:34.000 --> 00:42.000 So I'm going to tell you to take you in this session on a journey on how we went from being a local project 00:42.000 --> 00:48.000 in the city of Barcelona to building an international community that is still growing. 00:48.000 --> 00:52.000 So the journey didn't finish yet. 00:52.000 --> 01:01.000 And this is I thought that I could share some of the learnings and the challenges that we've been facing along the way. 01:01.000 --> 01:09.000 So before I start, have anybody here heard of the city before? 01:09.000 --> 01:10.000 Could you raise your hand? 01:10.000 --> 01:12.000 Oh wow. 01:12.000 --> 01:13.000 Amazing. 01:13.000 --> 01:14.000 Great. 01:14.000 --> 01:19.000 So that's cool because I wasn't planning to get into the details on how the platform works. 01:19.000 --> 01:24.000 But I will say that the city means a digital platform for citizen participation. 01:24.000 --> 01:32.000 Or we could also define it as a tool for organized the governance of any organization greatly. 01:32.000 --> 01:37.000 So how it started? 01:37.000 --> 01:41.000 We need to go back to 2016 at that moment. 01:41.000 --> 01:44.000 There was a new government in the city of Barcelona. 01:44.000 --> 01:50.000 From now, with the perspective of time, I could say that this was an activist government. 01:50.000 --> 01:56.000 Because we came from that period if you remember from 2011 and 2012, 01:56.000 --> 02:03.000 you remember like the global wave of protest about especially in Spain. 02:03.000 --> 02:07.000 They were very huge with a 15-end movement and then the acknowledged movement. 02:07.000 --> 02:11.000 But there were also other countries that were taking people in the streets. 02:11.000 --> 02:14.000 The streets were claiming a real democracy. 02:14.000 --> 02:19.000 So when some of these activists in the squares came into the institution, 02:19.000 --> 02:24.000 and they brought to the table a radical democracy model to implement in the city, 02:24.000 --> 02:32.000 and also a way of doing a free software with an open collaboration model 02:32.000 --> 02:35.000 from the first moment really. 02:35.000 --> 02:39.000 So you have seen here like the first version of the platform. 02:39.000 --> 02:44.000 At that moment, it was thought they were planning only to release the city, 02:44.000 --> 02:47.000 as a software for the city of Barcelona. 02:47.000 --> 02:53.000 It's in Catalan, but you can already infer that they will bring in full accountability 02:53.000 --> 02:54.000 from the first day. 02:54.000 --> 03:02.000 They wanted to give back meaning to the word participation for citizens of Barcelona. 03:02.000 --> 03:08.000 So soon after they figured out that they could rewrite the whole code 03:08.000 --> 03:13.000 to make it reusable to any other cities that were starting to show interest 03:13.000 --> 03:17.000 in how Barcelona was leading this new political project. 03:17.000 --> 03:21.000 So in fact, the first idea of having a community around the project 03:21.000 --> 03:26.000 started with a hackathon organized by the city council. 03:27.000 --> 03:32.000 It was two days, there were like 100, 200 people attending there, 03:32.000 --> 03:39.000 and the idea was to invite residents really anyone interested to discuss the new features 03:39.000 --> 03:44.000 and prioritize them that the new version of the software should have. 03:44.000 --> 03:49.000 So after two days, we came up with 100 proposals, 03:49.000 --> 03:54.000 and they mostly, most of them they were implemented in the roadmap. 03:54.000 --> 03:58.000 So after releasing this first reusable version, 03:58.000 --> 04:02.000 another city is in the metropolitan area, 04:02.000 --> 04:05.000 started to use in the platform, 04:05.000 --> 04:08.000 and we created this installation of the city, 04:08.000 --> 04:09.000 which is called metadata city. 04:09.000 --> 04:12.000 We have this record city in the project, 04:12.000 --> 04:16.000 because in the end we are building a software for governance. 04:16.000 --> 04:19.000 So we used it for eating our own dog food. 04:19.000 --> 04:26.000 We opened a space for receiving feature requests, 04:26.000 --> 04:27.000 and discussed them. 04:27.000 --> 04:31.000 This was still a very local community, 04:31.000 --> 04:33.000 but it was really intense in activity. 04:33.000 --> 04:38.000 We were having community meetings every two weeks of two types. 04:38.000 --> 04:41.000 What we called the meeting labs, 04:41.000 --> 04:44.000 which were more like an academic seminars, 04:44.000 --> 04:49.000 or oriented to put the project in dialogue with other open source communities. 04:49.000 --> 04:55.000 For example, we had this lab to study and to learn from other governance models 04:55.000 --> 04:59.000 from projects like WordPress, Wikipedia, Drupal. 04:59.000 --> 05:04.000 So that kind of also sent the signal that we were there 05:04.000 --> 05:07.000 and we wanted to collaborate with our peers. 05:08.000 --> 05:11.000 And then we have like the some meetings, 05:11.000 --> 05:14.000 which were more open gatherings, 05:14.000 --> 05:18.000 oriented to anyone really interested in political participation. 05:18.000 --> 05:20.000 So we had journalists, we had designers, 05:20.000 --> 05:22.000 also developers, 05:22.000 --> 05:25.000 but it was not the main focus. 05:25.000 --> 05:28.000 We were divided by different work areas, 05:28.000 --> 05:30.000 and we were concommunication strategies, 05:30.000 --> 05:32.000 and these kind of things, 05:32.000 --> 05:35.000 all documented in metadata city. 05:36.000 --> 05:40.000 And which is what is this we that I keep referring to, 05:40.000 --> 05:43.000 and I think this is a key point in our case, 05:43.000 --> 05:48.000 because also it was a project from a public institution, 05:48.000 --> 05:51.000 the professional team that needed to lead the project 05:51.000 --> 05:53.000 and create the community, 05:53.000 --> 05:56.000 wasn't really formed by public servants. 05:56.000 --> 05:58.000 There were two or three, 05:58.000 --> 06:02.000 but then they hired like people from different organizations, 06:02.000 --> 06:06.000 like we were having researchers from the university, 06:06.000 --> 06:07.000 or myself, 06:07.000 --> 06:10.000 I was coming from a Catalan municipality association. 06:10.000 --> 06:14.000 There were people working in facilitation field. 06:14.000 --> 06:21.000 So each of us had like a connection network, 06:21.000 --> 06:25.000 that facilitated the fact that we were creating this community 06:25.000 --> 06:27.000 around the project. 06:28.000 --> 06:32.000 So a few months later, 06:32.000 --> 06:36.000 some guy in the room called Virgil Deville, 06:36.000 --> 06:42.000 he was working for a French company called open source politics. 06:42.000 --> 06:45.000 So he came, I don't remember Virgil, 06:45.000 --> 06:47.000 if it was an email or a message, 06:47.000 --> 06:49.000 but he said hey, 06:49.000 --> 06:52.000 I discovered your code in GitHub, 06:52.000 --> 06:53.000 we think it's very cool, 06:53.000 --> 06:56.000 and we are already building services. 06:56.000 --> 06:59.000 We have a group of the code base and offering 06:59.000 --> 07:01.000 to municipalities in France. 07:01.000 --> 07:02.000 So at that moment, 07:02.000 --> 07:06.000 we realized that we needed to start a structure in the community, 07:06.000 --> 07:11.000 and thinking about the legal entity that we were going to need, 07:11.000 --> 07:13.000 because of two main factors. 07:13.000 --> 07:17.000 We knew that the project was going to have an international reach, 07:17.000 --> 07:19.000 and on the other hand, 07:19.000 --> 07:22.000 local elections in Barcelona were coming again. 07:22.000 --> 07:26.000 We knew that we could lose institutional support, 07:26.000 --> 07:30.000 and financial support if government changed. 07:30.000 --> 07:34.000 So we started the first governance process in the community. 07:34.000 --> 07:40.000 It was a long one, 18 months discussing in different aspects. 07:40.000 --> 07:43.000 What do we wanted to become? 07:43.000 --> 07:47.000 And after several phase-to-face meetings, 07:47.000 --> 07:51.000 we decided to create a non-profit association called 07:51.000 --> 07:54.000 the Free Software Association. 07:54.000 --> 07:57.000 This was already in 2019. 07:57.000 --> 07:59.000 At that time, this association, 07:59.000 --> 08:01.000 the only thing it had, 08:01.000 --> 08:03.000 it was a fiscal number, 08:03.000 --> 08:05.000 no funding, no staff, 08:05.000 --> 08:06.000 nothing, 08:06.000 --> 08:08.000 but that was really important first, 08:08.000 --> 08:12.000 because the government won again the elections, 08:12.000 --> 08:15.000 and we were able to sign an agreement 08:15.000 --> 08:18.000 to distribute the governance of the code 08:18.000 --> 08:21.000 that was in the repositories of the city council, 08:21.000 --> 08:24.000 and they were seated through the association, 08:24.000 --> 08:26.000 that from that moment, 08:26.000 --> 08:30.000 it was like a little representative of the organized community. 08:30.000 --> 08:33.000 So we gained some resilience there. 08:33.000 --> 08:37.000 This is what the agreement was about, 08:37.000 --> 08:40.000 the code is going to be maintained, 08:40.000 --> 08:44.000 and also the community is going to be damaged by this association, 08:44.000 --> 08:48.000 and also define some other details like the production composition, 08:48.000 --> 08:52.000 and something like that. 08:52.000 --> 08:54.000 So then the pandemic came in, 08:54.000 --> 08:58.000 COVID was in the only thing that spread out. 08:58.000 --> 09:00.000 Suddenly, a lot of organizations, 09:00.000 --> 09:01.000 we were locked down, 09:01.000 --> 09:05.000 but a lot of organizations needed digital tool 09:05.000 --> 09:08.000 to keep being operative and making decisions. 09:08.000 --> 09:11.000 So they decided to adopt the city, 09:12.000 --> 09:15.000 we were keeping, 09:15.000 --> 09:20.000 we were having a lot of requests for help, 09:20.000 --> 09:21.000 for installation, 09:21.000 --> 09:23.000 for offering services, 09:23.000 --> 09:24.000 feature requests, 09:24.000 --> 09:28.000 a lot of use cases for any kind of organizations of four types. 09:28.000 --> 09:31.000 We were only used to the local governments 09:31.000 --> 09:34.000 and then the European Commission came and said, 09:34.000 --> 09:36.000 hey, we're going to use your infrastructure 09:36.000 --> 09:39.000 to launch a conference for the future of Europe, 09:39.000 --> 09:41.000 and we want this, this, this and that. 09:41.000 --> 09:46.000 And then a church, a Lutheran church from Germany, 09:46.000 --> 09:49.000 say, no, we are also discussing internally, 09:49.000 --> 09:53.000 how do we want to rethink ourselves with our community? 09:53.000 --> 09:54.000 So we're using the city, 09:54.000 --> 09:57.000 and we need this, that and the other. 09:57.000 --> 10:01.000 So we were having effectively a growth crisis, 10:01.000 --> 10:04.000 like, okay, what the hell is going on? 10:05.000 --> 10:09.000 Because this is the theme I was telling you about 10:09.000 --> 10:12.000 from the moment the association was created, 10:12.000 --> 10:16.000 started to shift its focus to the Barcelona needs, 10:16.000 --> 10:20.000 because Barcelona community was also growing. 10:20.000 --> 10:24.000 They were carrying big processes of participatory budgeting. 10:24.000 --> 10:27.000 They needed all the people they could get. 10:27.000 --> 10:30.000 So we were like two people in the city, 10:30.000 --> 10:34.000 and I was an external and trying to figure out, 10:34.000 --> 10:39.000 okay, how do we navigate this moment and finally, 10:39.000 --> 10:43.000 two years later of this period, 10:43.000 --> 10:46.000 we get to sign like an agreement 10:46.000 --> 10:49.000 with the regional government of Catalonia, 10:49.000 --> 10:51.000 that recognized the association and the project 10:51.000 --> 10:54.000 is self as a digital common to be preserved, 10:54.000 --> 10:58.000 because in at least in Catalonia they were already used 10:58.000 --> 11:01.000 like 200 municipalities, 11:01.000 --> 11:06.000 and this gave a little bit of air to the staff of the association. 11:06.000 --> 11:08.000 We could hire a maintainer, 11:08.000 --> 11:10.000 which was the basic thing to do, 11:10.000 --> 11:14.000 and someone to support with the administration 11:14.000 --> 11:17.000 activity of the association. 11:17.000 --> 11:26.000 So another thing was that one of the economic helps that we got 11:26.000 --> 11:31.000 from this agreement that came from the Barcelona City Council, 11:31.000 --> 11:34.000 suddenly failed at the end of the year. 11:34.000 --> 11:39.000 They say, hey, do you know the 15,000 users that you were counting on? 11:39.000 --> 11:43.000 So it's a shame, but for political reasons, 11:43.000 --> 11:46.000 we can not afford to give you this money this year. 11:46.000 --> 11:49.000 So this was really like a moment of crisis, 11:49.000 --> 11:52.000 or we survived or we disappeared. 11:52.000 --> 11:57.000 And because the city was able as well to build an ecosystem 11:57.000 --> 12:05.000 productive group of companies that were already offering services 12:05.000 --> 12:07.000 on top of this infrastructure, 12:07.000 --> 12:11.000 we could put in place what we called the policy, 12:11.000 --> 12:13.000 the partnerships policy, 12:13.000 --> 12:16.000 and they give back a little amount every year 12:16.000 --> 12:21.000 from the gains they get for offering services on top of the city. 12:21.000 --> 12:24.000 So that was really a life-saver. 12:24.000 --> 12:26.000 So, okay, that was the story. 12:26.000 --> 12:31.000 This is how we ended having a great big community. 12:31.000 --> 12:34.000 Right now the city means being used in 30 countries 12:34.000 --> 12:38.000 around the world, mainly in Europe and Latin America, 12:38.000 --> 12:42.000 but also in Japan and some places in the states. 12:42.000 --> 12:47.000 And we keep using Meta-Decidivas 12:47.000 --> 12:50.000 that the main reference of the project 12:50.000 --> 12:55.000 to organize both the governance of the code or the roadmap 12:55.000 --> 12:58.000 and the governance of the community. 12:58.000 --> 13:02.000 On the code side or the technical contributions, 13:02.000 --> 13:06.000 we set up some spaces to back reporting. 13:06.000 --> 13:11.000 We keep that space for proposed new features. 13:11.000 --> 13:15.000 And of course, you can, we are trying to assemble 13:15.000 --> 13:20.000 a little community of designers around the project. 13:20.000 --> 13:25.000 And also we are encouraging this kind of module approach 13:25.000 --> 13:28.000 for the architecture to be resilient enough 13:28.000 --> 13:33.000 and to cover all the needs of the use cases that we have. 13:33.000 --> 13:36.000 On the known code contributions, of course, 13:36.000 --> 13:41.000 we also have this site to co-create the documentation, 13:42.000 --> 13:45.000 this is demonstrated to more than 30 languages. 13:45.000 --> 13:49.000 We only maintain Catalan Spanish English 13:49.000 --> 13:52.000 and then the community does the rest. 13:52.000 --> 13:55.000 And we keep organizing these kind of meetings 13:55.000 --> 14:00.000 that have been also crucial in building this international community. 14:00.000 --> 14:03.000 Because this is all about building community 14:03.000 --> 14:07.000 is getting to know people having established 14:08.000 --> 14:10.000 a personal relationship. 14:10.000 --> 14:13.000 So of course, we can not afford to do offline meetings 14:13.000 --> 14:15.000 or face-to-face meetings all the time 14:15.000 --> 14:18.000 because there is people from around the world. 14:18.000 --> 14:22.000 But the city in face is our annual conference 14:22.000 --> 14:27.000 and it's the big opportunity to get to know the newcomers 14:27.000 --> 14:33.000 and meet again with existing members in the community. 14:34.000 --> 14:37.000 We've been also experimenting because we use the city 14:37.000 --> 14:41.000 for the most asynchronous spaces for the liberation 14:41.000 --> 14:42.000 and discussion. 14:42.000 --> 14:45.000 We've been experimenting to integrate with metrics. 14:45.000 --> 14:48.000 We use element to have some rooms 14:48.000 --> 14:51.000 and to be able to coordinate quickly 14:51.000 --> 14:54.000 if we're going to launching a new release. 14:54.000 --> 14:57.000 So there is a room to coordinate the translation 14:57.000 --> 14:58.000 and these kind of things. 14:58.000 --> 15:00.000 And so far, so good. 15:01.000 --> 15:04.000 And right now on the governance side of things, 15:04.000 --> 15:06.000 we are just starting. 15:06.000 --> 15:11.000 I think it's today that finishes the step two of agenda setting 15:11.000 --> 15:13.000 and there is already a drafting committee. 15:13.000 --> 15:16.000 We need to write the internal regulations. 15:16.000 --> 15:18.000 I will explain you later why. 15:18.000 --> 15:23.000 But yeah, this was something that we had pending from 2020 15:23.000 --> 15:27.000 and now we find a moment to start working on that. 15:28.000 --> 15:31.000 And having a more transparent way to make decisions 15:31.000 --> 15:35.000 because this is something that always is problematic, 15:35.000 --> 15:39.000 when you want to scale the governance and make it democratic. 15:39.000 --> 15:41.000 So some lessons from that. 15:41.000 --> 15:46.000 I'm sure that not, I mean, in our case because we went 15:46.000 --> 15:49.000 from public investment, I know it's a peculiar 15:49.000 --> 15:54.000 but I would highlight and I think that some of you may relate. 15:54.000 --> 15:59.000 The fact that this activist government was really bold and brave 15:59.000 --> 16:02.000 like launching this political project was really inspiring 16:02.000 --> 16:07.000 for everyone and not for particular radical organizations. 16:07.000 --> 16:12.000 But you can get some of the genuine intentions, 16:12.000 --> 16:13.000 no when you see them. 16:13.000 --> 16:17.000 So for us was really key in the extension of the project. 16:17.000 --> 16:21.000 New York City, other big cities, the city of Mexico. 16:21.000 --> 16:26.000 I am quite sure that if it wasn't because we had 16:26.000 --> 16:32.000 Barcelona flagship, maybe it would be more difficult. 16:32.000 --> 16:35.000 The second one, this is a pain point. 16:35.000 --> 16:39.000 Public money, public code, okay, to that. 16:39.000 --> 16:42.000 But public procurement is a complete nightmare. 16:42.000 --> 16:45.000 I'm sure many of you are familiar with that. 16:45.000 --> 16:50.000 But our entire development model is based on public contracts 16:50.000 --> 16:52.000 and external companies. 16:52.000 --> 16:55.000 That means we keep rotating companies. 16:55.000 --> 16:59.000 We keep discussing and training new developers 16:59.000 --> 17:03.000 because the city, I guess, is a really complex software. 17:03.000 --> 17:08.000 It does a lot of things but it has a steep learning curve. 17:08.000 --> 17:13.000 So we are desperately finding or looking for new ways 17:13.000 --> 17:19.000 to at least the roadmap one part being having it internalized 17:19.000 --> 17:24.000 and not being dependent all the time on external sources. 17:24.000 --> 17:28.000 Third point, of course, I already said, 17:28.000 --> 17:34.000 in person meetings are really crucial for building this community. 17:34.000 --> 17:40.000 And that doesn't mean that having a global community or a big community, 17:40.000 --> 17:42.000 you have to have a global governance. 17:42.000 --> 17:47.000 We are already seeing this kind of local chapters appearing 17:47.000 --> 17:49.000 and functioning very well. 17:49.000 --> 17:54.000 This is a community for the municipalities of the province of Barcelona. 17:54.000 --> 17:57.000 It is run in fact by the provincial government, 17:57.000 --> 18:01.000 which is offering services for that municipalities. 18:01.000 --> 18:03.000 And they are using it as a social network, 18:03.000 --> 18:05.000 social professional network. 18:05.000 --> 18:07.000 They share different experiences. 18:07.000 --> 18:12.000 It's a community expert of practice that is working is working really well. 18:13.000 --> 18:14.000 Same on Japan. 18:14.000 --> 18:19.000 But in this case, this is run by an open source community code for Japan. 18:19.000 --> 18:22.000 They were the ones that discovered the project 18:22.000 --> 18:27.000 and they are doing this advocacy work of showcasing the different instances 18:27.000 --> 18:29.000 around the country. 18:29.000 --> 18:32.000 Then we have different from France. 18:32.000 --> 18:35.000 The same open source politics, which is today, 18:35.000 --> 18:38.000 one of the main partners of the city. 18:38.000 --> 18:42.000 They also put in place a community instance. 18:42.000 --> 18:47.000 More oriented perhaps to discuss their own roadmap necessities. 18:47.000 --> 18:51.000 But then also communicate with us. 18:51.000 --> 18:53.000 And as a final example, 18:53.000 --> 18:57.000 I will showcase the last big addition to the community 18:57.000 --> 18:59.000 that was the federal government of Brazil. 18:59.000 --> 19:01.000 And I mean it as a federal level. 19:01.000 --> 19:06.000 They are deploying the city to discuss the strategic policies 19:06.000 --> 19:08.000 for this mandate of Lula. 19:08.000 --> 19:11.000 And they are heavily organizing through telegram. 19:11.000 --> 19:13.000 They had several channels. 19:13.000 --> 19:17.000 But they put in place also an instance of the city 19:17.000 --> 19:20.000 to start organizing themselves. 19:20.000 --> 19:23.000 So on the challenges side, 19:23.000 --> 19:25.000 of course, financial sustainability. 19:25.000 --> 19:31.000 I'm sure this is a shared challenge for any open source project. 19:31.000 --> 19:33.000 We are trying to diversify. 19:33.000 --> 19:37.000 If you want to know more, my colleague Neil will do a talk tomorrow, 19:37.000 --> 19:42.000 specifically about our financial plan. 19:42.000 --> 19:46.000 So if you're interested, then defining our role 19:46.000 --> 19:49.000 in the economic ecosystem because as an association, 19:49.000 --> 19:52.000 we don't want to compete with the companies 19:52.000 --> 19:54.000 providing services around the city. 19:54.000 --> 20:00.000 So we need to go to see how big it can become. 20:00.000 --> 20:02.000 This ecosystem. 20:02.000 --> 20:07.000 And then if we need to limit ourselves in some aspect. 20:07.000 --> 20:10.000 This leads me to the third point, 20:10.000 --> 20:16.000 which is we started to, we started being a local software 20:16.000 --> 20:21.000 from a city and very tuned for the necessities 20:21.000 --> 20:23.000 of a local government. 20:23.000 --> 20:27.000 But now the city means being used for any kind of all kinds of organizations. 20:27.000 --> 20:30.000 So in the association, we are thinking, 20:30.000 --> 20:32.000 maybe we need to do a step back. 20:32.000 --> 20:36.000 We need to work more at the infrastructure layer 20:36.000 --> 20:43.000 and let the economic, the partners and the productive ecosystem 20:43.000 --> 20:47.000 build the last application to any organization 20:47.000 --> 20:51.000 and to cover all the needs in our community. 20:51.000 --> 20:55.000 More in the political side because we are a political project. 20:55.000 --> 20:58.000 How do we avoid participation watching? 20:58.000 --> 21:01.000 We already had some debates in the community. 21:01.000 --> 21:05.000 In the Chile, Estaiido movement some years ago, 21:05.000 --> 21:10.000 the government of Pignera back then tried also to use the same. 21:10.000 --> 21:12.000 How do you avoid that? 21:12.000 --> 21:16.000 Because in the end we have a GPL, a fair GPL 3. 21:16.000 --> 21:17.000 So it's free software. 21:17.000 --> 21:20.000 You can do whatever you want with that. 21:20.000 --> 21:22.000 But at the same time, we are a political community. 21:22.000 --> 21:25.000 So this is still an open debate. 21:25.000 --> 21:27.000 How do we manage it? 21:27.000 --> 21:30.000 And related to that is we think in our social content 21:30.000 --> 21:32.000 as a political community. 21:32.000 --> 21:36.000 The city has a social contract which means a set of basic principles 21:36.000 --> 21:41.000 that anybody that joins the community can meet to comply with. 21:41.000 --> 21:45.000 Like always be transparent, the content needs to be traceable 21:45.000 --> 21:49.000 and the integrity of the information needs to be guaranteed 21:49.000 --> 21:53.000 in this kind of things. 21:53.000 --> 21:58.000 But maybe we need to amplify or rethink our social contract. 21:58.000 --> 22:01.000 We are doing now the internal revelations 22:01.000 --> 22:06.000 because we had a debate last year about what is happening in Palestine. 22:06.000 --> 22:10.000 For example, and the need that we had to position ourselves 22:10.000 --> 22:15.000 with the violations of human rights and this kind of things. 22:15.000 --> 22:20.000 And we already noticed that it's easy to have political affinity 22:20.000 --> 22:22.000 when you are a small community. 22:22.000 --> 22:26.000 But now that we have this kind of global rate, 22:26.000 --> 22:31.000 we knew that it's not that easy to be on the same page. 22:31.000 --> 22:37.000 So this is one of the reasons that we are having more clear rules 22:37.000 --> 22:42.000 on how is this going to be managed. 22:42.000 --> 22:47.000 And last but not least, the city was born on a 1st of February. 22:47.000 --> 22:52.000 So this means that it's today is the birthday project. 22:52.000 --> 22:54.000 We are eight years old. 22:54.000 --> 22:55.000 Yay. 22:55.000 --> 23:02.000 So we will be going to celebrate with some 23:02.000 --> 23:03.000 the city members in the room. 23:03.000 --> 23:06.000 So you are more than welcome to join us if you want. 23:06.000 --> 23:09.000 And thank you very much for your attention. 23:10.000 --> 23:18.000 Any questions or comments? 23:18.000 --> 23:19.000 Yep. 23:40.000 --> 23:42.000 Okay. 23:42.000 --> 23:44.000 I try to repeat the question. 23:44.000 --> 23:48.000 So do I have any tips to build trust from the government 23:48.000 --> 23:52.000 when you intend to launch a project like that? 23:52.000 --> 23:54.000 Yeah. 23:54.000 --> 24:00.000 I mean, we try to design this software with some democratic principles 24:00.000 --> 24:01.000 in the software. 24:01.000 --> 24:05.000 It's not that easy because then you start to see in different use cases. 24:05.000 --> 24:08.000 But from the perspective of a government. 24:08.000 --> 24:10.000 It all starts with accountability. 24:10.000 --> 24:12.000 We find this is a key point. 24:12.000 --> 24:16.000 The scene has a specific component, which is called accountability. 24:16.000 --> 24:20.000 And it lets you to submit proposals from part of the citizens. 24:20.000 --> 24:26.000 But then the citizens is completely informed about any change that they 24:26.000 --> 24:32.000 propose a suffered like they were converted to a specific project. 24:32.000 --> 24:37.000 They were, I don't know, I managed by administrator and they edited. 24:37.000 --> 24:43.000 So the fact to keep having this traceability in the participation cycle. 24:43.000 --> 24:48.000 It's what builds more trust in our experience at least in Barcelona. 24:48.000 --> 24:49.000 This is something that. 24:49.000 --> 24:55.000 And of course, having binding political processes that really interest people, 24:55.000 --> 25:00.000 not discussing irrelevant things for example in Barcelona. 25:00.000 --> 25:05.000 We had this huge problem about how do you say.