WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:10.000 Please welcome Jonathan. 00:10.000 --> 00:21.000 Hmm, first challenge of the day. 00:21.000 --> 00:25.000 All right. 00:25.000 --> 00:30.000 Well, first of all, so that was a great talk about individual communities. 00:30.000 --> 00:37.000 My job now is to expand that to say that we need to be more than individuals in the tech community. 00:37.000 --> 00:39.000 We need to bring more people in. 00:39.000 --> 00:43.000 So who knows what an Ospo is? 00:43.000 --> 00:44.000 Job is easy. 00:44.000 --> 00:50.000 So for folks who don't, that's also great because we're going to explore what they might be in the future. 00:50.000 --> 00:51.000 Fingers crossed. 00:51.000 --> 00:54.000 So an Ospo is an open source. 00:54.000 --> 00:59.000 If anyone can make like lawn order sounds, program office, don't, don't. 00:59.000 --> 01:07.000 So program office comes with a specific sort of field to it. 01:07.000 --> 01:13.000 It's a program which has a definition that has to be followed and it's an office. 01:13.000 --> 01:16.000 It's something I go to get my teeth clean or something like that. 01:16.000 --> 01:20.000 It is outside of where I normally exist. 01:20.000 --> 01:24.000 So to kick things off, I am from Burlington for a month. 01:24.000 --> 01:30.000 We are starting to do a lot of what I'll be talking about today, which is uniting a lot of our communities. 01:30.000 --> 01:32.000 Starting with the tech community. 01:32.000 --> 01:34.000 And we just had a really good meet up the other week. 01:34.000 --> 01:39.000 And someone came in and talked to us about fraud, essentially. 01:39.000 --> 01:42.000 They were showed us this slide, feel free to read. 01:42.000 --> 01:48.000 It's a lot of information about how much some people are really bad and steal from other people. 01:48.000 --> 01:53.000 The core demographic that gets stolen from is actually young people. 01:53.000 --> 01:56.000 But the most amount of money gets stolen from the other. 01:56.000 --> 01:58.000 People is 65 or plus, 70 plus. 01:58.000 --> 02:01.000 And their solution to this was to create a conference. 02:01.000 --> 02:02.000 Let's have a conference. 02:02.000 --> 02:04.000 Let's bring in someone from the FBI. 02:04.000 --> 02:08.000 And let's have them talk about how not to get scammed. 02:08.000 --> 02:11.000 How not to lose your money to fraud, how not to click that link. 02:11.000 --> 02:13.000 Look for the little security symbol. 02:13.000 --> 02:14.000 That sort of thing. 02:15.000 --> 02:19.000 It was an interesting solution and we'll come back to this a little later. 02:19.000 --> 02:24.000 So when we think about open source, at least when I think about open source in this context, 02:24.000 --> 02:27.000 I'm here for four key reasons. 02:27.000 --> 02:28.000 One is the philosophy. 02:28.000 --> 02:31.000 This is why I got into this space in the first place. 02:31.000 --> 02:33.000 You just start building something. 02:33.000 --> 02:35.000 That's it. 02:35.000 --> 02:40.000 You can expand on this and you can look at the self-serving nature of open source. 02:40.000 --> 02:43.000 You just start building something that you need. 02:44.000 --> 02:46.000 And then you bring in the collaborative nature. 02:46.000 --> 02:48.000 You just start building something that you need. 02:48.000 --> 02:49.000 That someone else also needs. 02:49.000 --> 02:51.000 So you're building it with them. 02:51.000 --> 02:56.000 And then there's this interesting layer where you start to leverage the self-service 02:56.000 --> 03:01.000 Self-service nature of open source to support the commons. 03:01.000 --> 03:03.000 So you just, I have to read this off the screen. 03:03.000 --> 03:06.000 You just start building something you need with someone else who needs the same thing. 03:06.000 --> 03:10.000 Or just want to learn some code, collaborative practices, project management, community management, whatever. 03:10.000 --> 03:14.000 So they increase their employment prospects because they want to challenge or for fun. 03:14.000 --> 03:16.000 They're upskilling. 03:16.000 --> 03:20.000 They're just bored with their day jobs so they want to do something else. 03:20.000 --> 03:22.000 They want to learn a new programming language. 03:22.000 --> 03:25.000 They're not necessarily interested in the thing you're building. 03:25.000 --> 03:33.000 But they're interested in the outcomes that they get from helping you build that thing that you are building. 03:34.000 --> 03:41.000 So there is this subsection, this educational program within numfocus called Pi data, 03:41.000 --> 03:45.000 which I think exemplifies some of these core principles. 03:45.000 --> 03:48.000 Pi data is very large. 03:48.000 --> 03:51.000 It's global 200 plus thousand members. 03:51.000 --> 03:52.000 They've gone through. 03:52.000 --> 03:54.000 They don't all go to all the meetups, obviously. 03:54.000 --> 03:57.000 The meetups are actually fairly small unless you're one of the big events. 03:57.000 --> 03:59.000 Pi data, London, Pi data, New York, etc. 03:59.000 --> 04:01.000 But people go through this program. 04:01.000 --> 04:02.000 They learn about Python. 04:02.000 --> 04:03.000 They learn about data science. 04:03.000 --> 04:04.000 They learn about Julia. 04:04.000 --> 04:06.000 All this fun stuff about open source. 04:06.000 --> 04:07.000 They meet friends. 04:07.000 --> 04:08.000 They network. 04:08.000 --> 04:09.000 They can find jobs. 04:09.000 --> 04:10.000 That sort of things. 04:10.000 --> 04:11.000 Fantastic program. 04:11.000 --> 04:13.000 If you don't know about it, go to Pi data. 04:13.000 --> 04:14.000 The website. 04:14.000 --> 04:15.000 Learn more about it. 04:15.000 --> 04:16.000 Point being, it's huge. 04:16.000 --> 04:17.000 It's global. 04:17.000 --> 04:18.000 It's effective. 04:18.000 --> 04:20.000 It makes change around the world. 04:20.000 --> 04:23.000 So when we expand that beyond Pi data. 04:23.000 --> 04:26.000 I'm sure everyone's seen most of these numbers. 04:26.000 --> 04:28.000 Open source is huge. 04:28.000 --> 04:30.000 I've got to say that again. 04:30.000 --> 04:32.000 Open source is huge. 04:32.000 --> 04:36.000 It is probably the largest institution that exists in the world. 04:36.000 --> 04:38.000 It's more impactful than universities. 04:38.000 --> 04:40.000 It's more impactful than governments. 04:40.000 --> 04:42.000 Trillions of dollars of GDP. 04:42.000 --> 04:43.000 So we think right now. 04:43.000 --> 04:44.000 How do you measure this? 04:44.000 --> 04:49.000 But you've got, you're affecting hundreds of thousands of people that go through this institution. 04:49.000 --> 04:53.000 Learn how to contribute collaboratively to software. 04:53.000 --> 04:56.000 And hopefully more things as I'll explain in a second. 04:56.000 --> 05:00.000 And exit with a job, with a degree, not maybe a piece of paper or a certificate. 05:00.000 --> 05:01.000 But they have a degree. 05:01.000 --> 05:04.000 They're experts in coding or development or community management or anything. 05:04.000 --> 05:07.000 They're experts in open source. 05:07.000 --> 05:08.000 We have to leverage that. 05:08.000 --> 05:13.000 We have to respect that we are probably the largest open, the largest institution in the world. 05:13.000 --> 05:15.000 Creating some of the most good in the world. 05:15.000 --> 05:18.000 The biggest changes. 05:18.000 --> 05:20.000 So we're reaching this point now. 05:20.000 --> 05:21.000 We're recognizing it. 05:21.000 --> 05:25.000 Well, what's the risk that could come if we don't fully embrace 05:25.000 --> 05:26.000 everything that we do? 05:26.000 --> 05:30.000 The technology we build, the communities that we exist within. 05:30.000 --> 05:34.000 Don't build technology that exists solely in those communities. 05:34.000 --> 05:37.000 We affect everything. 05:37.000 --> 05:46.000 If we don't appreciate that aspect, we're going to end up being some of the institutions that we might 05:46.000 --> 05:48.000 Not appreciate currently. 05:48.000 --> 05:52.000 We might become another siloed sort of corporate open source endeavor. 05:52.000 --> 05:57.000 We might have local communities standing completely outside of the open source development world. 05:57.000 --> 06:02.000 Standing completely outside of the academic silo, standing completely outside of the local tech communities, 06:02.000 --> 06:07.000 which are outside of the policy makers outside of the tech industry, which is developing the commercial aspect of everything. 06:07.000 --> 06:12.000 And then we're going to try and smoosh it all together as the separate silo is probably not going to work well. 06:12.000 --> 06:15.000 Probably going to end up with some negative consequences. 06:15.000 --> 06:21.000 This is a real risk that I fear is more likely to happen than the alternative right now. 06:21.000 --> 06:31.000 So another story that this same meet up, I met some folks who lead a group called Code for BTV. 06:31.000 --> 06:36.000 It's an extension of Code for America, if anyone knows what that is. 06:36.000 --> 06:41.000 They had a community member. 06:41.000 --> 06:42.000 Let's start this way. 06:42.000 --> 06:46.000 There was a community member who had a baby. 06:46.000 --> 06:51.000 And then it was no longer a baby and they had all this baby equipment wasn't used too much. 06:51.000 --> 06:53.000 And it's Vermont. 06:53.000 --> 06:54.000 We love supporting our community. 06:54.000 --> 06:55.000 She's excited. 06:55.000 --> 06:56.000 Hey, I'm not going to throw this out. 06:56.000 --> 06:59.000 I'm not going to donate it somewhere where it can get resolved. 06:59.000 --> 07:01.000 I'm just going to give it to someone else who needs it. 07:01.000 --> 07:03.000 So that's what she did. 07:03.000 --> 07:04.000 People loved that. 07:04.000 --> 07:07.000 And so more people started saying, hey, I have this slightly used baby equipment. 07:07.000 --> 07:10.000 Can you find someone who needs it and give it to them? 07:10.000 --> 07:11.000 So she did. 07:11.000 --> 07:13.000 And this grew pretty rapidly. 07:13.000 --> 07:15.000 And it was managed in spreadsheets. 07:15.000 --> 07:19.000 And that, as amazing as it was, was not very effective. 07:19.000 --> 07:24.000 So what ended up happening is she connected with these folks at Code for BTV. 07:24.000 --> 07:28.000 And they connected her with developers who were able to create an application. 07:28.000 --> 07:30.000 They're currently creating the application. 07:30.000 --> 07:32.000 That is going to streamline this process. 07:32.000 --> 07:36.000 Make her be able to continue to doing what she's continue to do, what she's doing. 07:36.000 --> 07:38.000 And just make it easier. 07:38.000 --> 07:39.000 So she can kind of scale it. 07:39.000 --> 07:41.000 If she wants it, whatever she wants to do, really. 07:41.000 --> 07:44.000 It's just going to be a simpler process. 07:44.000 --> 07:49.000 That to me is amazing. 07:49.000 --> 07:51.000 So what if we scale that? 07:51.000 --> 07:54.000 And what if we bring more people into that sort of process? 07:54.000 --> 07:55.000 And this is the potential. 07:55.000 --> 07:56.000 I'm bad with slides. 07:56.000 --> 07:59.000 And what I really want to happen here is like all these circles from the risk. 07:59.000 --> 08:00.000 Combined together. 08:00.000 --> 08:01.000 And then there's a big light. 08:01.000 --> 08:02.000 But no. 08:02.000 --> 08:03.000 Can't do that. 08:03.000 --> 08:05.000 So this is what we get. 08:05.000 --> 08:08.000 But if we bring in all these, let's go back to the risk side. 08:08.000 --> 08:15.000 Actually, if we bring in all these communities to be one entity, one organization, one community, 08:15.000 --> 08:21.000 then we can do so much more than like the use baby equipment being distributed to other people that need it. 08:21.000 --> 08:26.000 What if we talk to our local community members who are technology impacts every day. 08:26.000 --> 08:27.000 They're the core stakeholder. 08:27.000 --> 08:28.000 I know we hate that word. 08:28.000 --> 08:29.000 I hate that word. 08:29.000 --> 08:31.000 But they are the core stakeholder of everything we build. 08:31.000 --> 08:35.000 Whatever we build affects everyone in the world every day. 08:35.000 --> 08:36.000 So bring, go to them. 08:36.000 --> 08:37.000 Talk to them. 08:37.000 --> 08:38.000 There's no problem. 08:38.000 --> 08:43.000 Do you need help managing irrigation, managing water and farming equipment, that sort of thing? 08:43.000 --> 08:44.000 Okay. 08:44.000 --> 08:45.000 Great. 08:45.000 --> 08:51.000 Let's bring that problem and you, the person who thought of that problem, to the university in the local community, 08:51.000 --> 08:53.000 where we can research that problem. 08:53.000 --> 08:59.000 Does this problem exist elsewhere in other communities and other nations and other, anything? 08:59.000 --> 09:00.000 All right. 09:00.000 --> 09:01.000 Great. 09:01.000 --> 09:02.000 Let's develop a solution. 09:02.000 --> 09:04.000 Keep in the original community member with us. 09:04.000 --> 09:06.000 Let's go to maybe the design meet-up. 09:06.000 --> 09:07.000 Design community. 09:07.000 --> 09:08.000 Let's design a wireframe. 09:08.000 --> 09:09.000 Let's design an idea. 09:09.000 --> 09:12.000 Build out a roadmap for completing that idea. 09:12.000 --> 09:13.000 Wonderful. 09:13.000 --> 09:15.000 Let's keep everyone who's been in that process so far. 09:15.000 --> 09:17.000 Now go through sort of a development community. 09:17.000 --> 09:18.000 All right. 09:18.000 --> 09:19.000 Let's develop an MVP. 09:19.000 --> 09:21.000 Let's make it open source. 09:21.000 --> 09:22.000 All right. 09:22.000 --> 09:23.000 Great. 09:23.000 --> 09:25.000 Let's bring this to maybe the commercial community now. 09:25.000 --> 09:29.000 Is there a way to commercialize some aspect of this so that we can bring money back 09:29.000 --> 09:31.000 to sustain the open source aspect of it? 09:31.000 --> 09:32.000 Wonderful. 09:32.000 --> 09:33.000 If not. 09:33.000 --> 09:34.000 Okay. 09:34.000 --> 09:37.000 Let's bring it to the local government and implement some policy. 09:37.000 --> 09:41.000 Let's adopt this at a government level because it's core open source infrastructure. 09:41.000 --> 09:45.000 The university says, hey, these four other cities could probably use this solution as well. 09:45.000 --> 09:46.000 They'll help you maintain it. 09:46.000 --> 09:52.000 That was actually done in the South Coast, southeast and coast of the US with hurricane disaster relief. 09:52.000 --> 09:54.000 They needed some software to help manage. 09:54.000 --> 09:56.000 I don't know the specifics of it. 09:56.000 --> 10:03.000 We managed the responses to these disasters and it was developed by one city and then another city. 10:03.000 --> 10:08.000 By hurricane and they helped maintain it in development and they're just passing on the hurricane path. 10:08.000 --> 10:09.000 Really interesting story. 10:09.000 --> 10:11.000 I don't know much about. 10:11.000 --> 10:17.000 But great example of multiple cities working together to build and maintain open source software that impacts 10:17.000 --> 10:19.000 everyday local communities. 10:19.000 --> 10:22.000 So that's the potential of what we could build. 10:22.000 --> 10:30.000 If we brought in our definition of community to include everyone, not just development community. 10:30.000 --> 10:35.000 Local communities, universities, policy makers. 10:35.000 --> 10:40.000 If policy makers were in the room from the beginning when we're talking to the local community member who has a problem, 10:40.000 --> 10:44.000 we wouldn't have to get to the end of the process and then start explaining to the policy maker. 10:44.000 --> 10:46.000 Doesn't understand anything about anything we've done so far. 10:46.000 --> 10:47.000 Hey, this is important. 10:47.000 --> 10:48.000 We should implement this. 10:48.000 --> 10:53.000 They were there when the constituent said, I have a problem and they want to stay in power. 10:53.000 --> 10:56.000 They want to stay elected so they're going to do what the constituent wants. 10:56.000 --> 10:58.000 Makes life a little easier. 10:59.000 --> 11:02.000 So this brings us back and I'm going to have a lot of time for questions. 11:02.000 --> 11:04.000 So please think of something. 11:04.000 --> 11:09.000 This brings us back to that original problem that came up. 11:09.000 --> 11:13.000 The fraud problem. 11:13.000 --> 11:20.000 When we get in scam and the core demographic of the people getting taken advantage of being elderly people, 11:20.000 --> 11:22.000 people who don't necessarily interact with technology. 11:22.000 --> 11:25.000 And in Vermont, you're also incredibly rural. 11:25.000 --> 11:27.000 You live out in the country. 11:27.000 --> 11:31.000 You live in our biggest city is Burlington, which is a small town. 11:31.000 --> 11:32.000 It's beautiful. 11:32.000 --> 11:33.000 It should come. 11:33.000 --> 11:34.000 But it's tiny. 11:34.000 --> 11:36.000 So and most of the population does not live in Burlington. 11:36.000 --> 11:39.000 They live in many more smaller towns around the state. 11:39.000 --> 11:45.000 So is a conference going to help teach those people how not to get scammed? 11:45.000 --> 11:50.000 They're probably not going to leave their home or their local community to come to Burlington. 11:50.000 --> 11:56.000 The big city to listen to someone from the FBI talk about how not to get scammed. 11:56.000 --> 11:58.000 That's just not who they are. 11:58.000 --> 11:59.000 That doesn't speak their language. 11:59.000 --> 12:02.000 This idea is a conference idea is a great idea. 12:02.000 --> 12:06.000 But it didn't go out and speak to the local community first. 12:06.000 --> 12:08.000 Why are you getting scammed? 12:08.000 --> 12:10.000 Do you do these things? 12:10.000 --> 12:14.000 What's going on in your day-to-day life when you interact with technology on the internet? 12:15.000 --> 12:23.000 So the idea now is let's have the conference that teaches the teachers who then go out to the local community 12:23.000 --> 12:25.000 and have those conversations. 12:25.000 --> 12:26.000 Go to where they are. 12:26.000 --> 12:28.000 Go to the coffee shops, the bars. 12:28.000 --> 12:35.000 Have conversations, have round tables and town halls to talk to people about how they can be safer online 12:35.000 --> 12:36.000 and safer with technology. 12:36.000 --> 12:38.000 So they don't get scammed. 12:38.000 --> 12:48.000 So that's largely if we can abstract that fraud concepts to everything else that we build, what I'm advocating for. 12:48.000 --> 12:54.000 It's bringing the open source program office outside of the program office. 12:54.000 --> 12:58.000 Don't give it a definition as a program. 12:58.000 --> 13:01.000 Let it be what the local community needs it to be. 13:01.000 --> 13:03.000 And don't put it in an office. 13:03.000 --> 13:05.000 Put it in the coffee shop. 13:05.000 --> 13:06.000 Put it in the local community. 13:06.000 --> 13:11.000 Put it in the person's home or on their farm where they need solutions every day. 13:11.000 --> 13:19.000 And the great thing about Ospo, which is why I think they can the program office Ospo, which is why I think they can play such an important role in this, 13:19.000 --> 13:20.000 because they already exist. 13:20.000 --> 13:26.000 And they already exist in many cities, in many universities, in many institutions and corporations. 13:26.000 --> 13:30.000 And we can link them up into what might be a regional Ospo. 13:30.000 --> 13:34.000 There's that hurricane story going along the southern coast of the US. 13:34.000 --> 13:37.000 Although that technology I think died out. 13:37.000 --> 13:42.000 But if those cities linked up with their Ospo at the time, if they had them, I don't think they did. 13:42.000 --> 13:46.000 But they could keep that stuff going for longer. 13:46.000 --> 13:49.000 If we have UVM has a wonderful Ospo. 13:49.000 --> 13:56.000 I think there's corporations in the Northeast that have Ospo said well in other institutions. 13:56.000 --> 13:57.000 We're able to link all those up. 13:57.000 --> 14:02.000 Think about Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, if you know they're in the Northeast. 14:02.000 --> 14:09.000 New York and a bunch of all those states working together to maintain open source software that affects all their local communities. 14:09.000 --> 14:14.000 And then also partnering with maybe the Pacific Northwest, which is also doing amazing work, 14:14.000 --> 14:20.000 experimenting with a sort of local community to policy pipeline of software development. 14:20.000 --> 14:23.000 And then maintaining software collaboratively that way. 14:23.000 --> 14:24.000 And I know there's a lot of stuff in Europe. 14:24.000 --> 14:33.000 There's actually a lot of organizations in Europe that are exploring different ways to bring local community into the development process. 14:33.000 --> 14:37.000 So if anyone knows about those or wants to tell me about them, I am all ears. 14:37.000 --> 14:40.000 But I'll end with a reframing of the Ospo. 14:40.000 --> 14:42.000 Maybe it's not a program office. 14:42.000 --> 14:46.000 Maybe it's just open source people and organizations working together. 14:46.000 --> 14:52.000 And I will say I take this idea of reframing Ospo from Jacob Green, who has like 6,000 of these Ospo. 14:52.000 --> 14:55.000 These Ospo redefinitions. 14:55.000 --> 14:57.000 And they're all fantastic. 14:57.000 --> 15:07.000 So is anyone not convinced that we should bring more people into open source development community? 15:07.000 --> 15:08.000 Great. 15:08.000 --> 15:09.000 Let's do it then. 15:10.000 --> 15:19.000 So I have, yeah, I've got 10 minutes for questions. 15:19.000 --> 15:25.000 I can talk about what we're doing in Vermont and a bunch of other stuff too. 15:25.000 --> 15:27.000 Shall I repeat it? 15:27.000 --> 15:28.000 I'll repeat it. 15:28.000 --> 15:30.000 Mr. Anderson. 15:30.000 --> 15:32.000 I want to be more in cooperation. 15:32.000 --> 15:34.000 And that's reading the trainer. 15:34.000 --> 15:35.000 Open source. 15:35.000 --> 15:36.000 We're working with the ship. 15:36.000 --> 15:38.000 We're doing something for the last month's year. 15:38.000 --> 15:40.000 We have been doing different level. 15:40.000 --> 15:43.000 And the struggle we have is to follow this. 15:43.000 --> 15:46.000 The software is not coming from communities. 15:46.000 --> 15:47.000 That was a times like that. 15:47.000 --> 15:51.000 It's a strength in the community for them to take over. 15:51.000 --> 15:54.000 And so you have an idea how to do this. 15:54.000 --> 15:58.000 Praise for those of you who are in relation to Ospo. 15:58.000 --> 16:04.000 That's very outside of Europe, on US, with more creating a void where you have 16:04.000 --> 16:05.000 to manage to keep people that you train. 16:05.000 --> 16:06.000 You need to train. 16:06.000 --> 16:07.000 You need to train. 16:07.000 --> 16:08.000 The developer also locally. 16:08.000 --> 16:09.000 Do you want them? 16:09.000 --> 16:11.000 Or not to leave this away? 16:11.000 --> 16:12.000 Yeah. 16:12.000 --> 16:13.000 That's a big question. 16:13.000 --> 16:19.000 So the question is how do you train, how do you bring someone through this process and have 16:19.000 --> 16:22.000 them stay in the community and help develop this software? 16:22.000 --> 16:24.000 I'm going to add something to it. 16:24.000 --> 16:29.000 And keep people from maybe taking advantage of mentorship programs where they go into 16:29.000 --> 16:30.000 Learn a skill to get a job. 16:30.000 --> 16:33.000 Which is not like a bad taking advantage of what it's built for. 16:33.000 --> 16:37.000 We want them to stay in these communities. 16:37.000 --> 16:44.000 I think, so one of the biggest benefits to this sort of community to policy pipeline is that you're 16:44.000 --> 16:49.000 trading, so an individual that goes through it is going to learn all this software stuff. 16:49.000 --> 16:51.000 It goes back to that fourth principle. 16:51.000 --> 16:57.000 You're learning how to learning these skills because you're an open source. 16:57.000 --> 17:02.000 But they're learning these skills on something, on building something that affects them personally. 17:03.000 --> 17:06.000 That is why I stay in open source. 17:06.000 --> 17:08.000 I'm building this kind of that first and second principle. 17:08.000 --> 17:11.000 I'll just build something that I want to use. 17:11.000 --> 17:17.000 So if we train people on something they want to use and don't necessarily look at them as a 17:17.000 --> 17:22.000 Commercial and product, like this person will either help me build a tool I can sell or be a consumer of the 17:22.000 --> 17:26.000 tool that I sell or the product, I think they're more likely to stay in. 17:26.000 --> 17:31.000 And the core aspect is get them to work on something, train them by having them work on something 17:31.000 --> 17:35.000 that affects them personally or someone in their family or their local community. 17:35.000 --> 17:37.000 So they stick around. 17:37.000 --> 17:41.000 They get to see the impact of it immediately. 17:41.000 --> 17:46.000 The answer to your question is a very broad question. 17:46.000 --> 17:47.000 Okay. 17:47.000 --> 17:49.000 Happy to. 17:49.000 --> 17:50.000 Any other thoughts? 17:50.000 --> 17:52.000 Does anyone yet go ahead? 17:52.000 --> 17:59.000 Do you think there are any inherent characteristics of the open source communities that make 17:59.000 --> 18:04.000 it difficult to collaborate or communicate with other parts of society? 18:04.000 --> 18:08.000 The deeper infrastructure for sure. 18:08.000 --> 18:09.000 Yeah. 18:09.000 --> 18:17.000 Are there some open source communities or development projects that are more difficult to integrate with local community? 18:17.000 --> 18:18.000 Yeah. 18:18.000 --> 18:19.000 For sure. 18:19.000 --> 18:21.000 The deeper infrastructure aspects. 18:21.000 --> 18:27.000 I'm not sure people should be learning how to contribute to open source on deep infrastructure. 18:27.000 --> 18:33.000 But they can learn on the application level, which is very impactful to an individual. 18:33.000 --> 18:35.000 And that's what the local community cares about. 18:35.000 --> 18:41.000 And one of the, another benefit of taking people through this community policy pipeline is that 18:41.000 --> 18:48.000 they're going to learn that, hey, my browser depends on a lot more than just this thing I double click on. 18:48.000 --> 18:50.000 There's more under it. 18:50.000 --> 18:55.000 And if they're interested, they can stay involved because they're working on an application that impacts 18:55.000 --> 18:59.000 them so they stay in the community and they go deeper and deeper deeper. 18:59.000 --> 19:04.000 And ultimately, we can get people contributing and supporting the deeper infrastructure. 19:04.000 --> 19:10.000 But yeah, maintaining programming languages, I don't think, is something we can bring to a local community. 19:10.000 --> 19:15.000 But people who maintain programming languages probably have local communities that they're a part of. 19:15.000 --> 19:16.000 This is another aspect. 19:16.000 --> 19:20.000 The remote aspect of technology work nowadays. 19:21.000 --> 19:24.000 Burlington Vermont is a great example of this. 19:24.000 --> 19:30.000 Vermont in general, there are a lot of remote workers up there who don't work for any companies that exist in that state. 19:30.000 --> 19:32.000 They don't go to an office, they don't do anything like that. 19:32.000 --> 19:35.000 They also don't necessarily interact with the community. 19:35.000 --> 19:40.000 So the community is being siloed from the tech community. 19:40.000 --> 19:43.000 And that's probably not something we want to see continue. 19:43.000 --> 19:46.000 We want to be part of our local communities. 19:46.000 --> 19:50.000 So it's more work and it's difficult work. 19:50.000 --> 19:54.000 And this is what we're starting to do in Vermont is organize organizers. 19:54.000 --> 19:58.000 But let's ourselves as the open source community. 19:58.000 --> 20:02.000 Even if we are working on the tech that the local communities might not appreciate or understand, 20:02.000 --> 20:07.000 let's go to the local community and ask them what they want us to work on. 20:07.000 --> 20:09.000 And we don't necessarily need to work on it. 20:09.000 --> 20:13.000 But we can help organize the rest of the remote community and say, 20:13.000 --> 20:17.000 here's something that Jim down the street asked for. 20:17.000 --> 20:18.000 It would help him a lot. 20:18.000 --> 20:19.000 Can we build it? 20:19.000 --> 20:22.000 And someone probably is going to have some spare time. 20:22.000 --> 20:23.000 They're a consultant or whatever. 20:23.000 --> 20:24.000 If you have time off, sure. 20:24.000 --> 20:25.000 I'll help build that thing. 20:25.000 --> 20:26.000 I'll start it. 20:26.000 --> 20:28.000 We'll make it open source or continue. 20:28.000 --> 20:32.000 And then bring that to other cities and other communities and see if we can grow it that way. 20:32.000 --> 20:38.000 So it's sort of a way, even though there are aspects of open source and technology that probably 20:38.000 --> 20:40.000 are not appreciated by local communities. 20:40.000 --> 20:45.000 It is a way to still engage them as individuals. 20:45.000 --> 20:47.000 It's a long answer. 20:47.000 --> 20:49.000 So for where are it? 20:49.000 --> 20:51.000 It's like, how did you get started? 20:51.000 --> 20:54.000 How do you get to attract people if you're going to speak to them? 20:54.000 --> 20:55.000 You're going to pack your tones. 20:55.000 --> 20:57.000 What has been working for you? 20:57.000 --> 21:01.000 So I moved to Berlin to three or four years ago before that. 21:01.000 --> 21:03.000 I was in Rochester, New York, which is very different. 21:03.000 --> 21:06.000 It's much larger in different communities, kind of world. 21:07.000 --> 21:10.000 Same type of people though, for sure. 21:10.000 --> 21:12.000 And so that was right after the pandemic. 21:12.000 --> 21:15.000 And I've been told that before the pandemic and I very much believe this. 21:15.000 --> 21:19.000 The technology community in Vermont was very united. 21:19.000 --> 21:20.000 It was very cohesive. 21:20.000 --> 21:22.000 And like so many other things. 21:22.000 --> 21:24.000 The pandemic kind of blew that apart. 21:24.000 --> 21:26.000 So and it hasn't come back together yet. 21:26.000 --> 21:32.000 So what we just started doing is, you know, we have half a dozen meetups in Berlin to 21:32.000 --> 21:33.000 themselves. 21:33.000 --> 21:35.000 We have an entire corporation of meetups. 21:35.000 --> 21:39.000 We have the user testing and the product managers, the design meetup, the development 21:39.000 --> 21:40.000 meetup, the data science meetup. 21:40.000 --> 21:42.000 Just like you guys are, it's not. 21:42.000 --> 21:44.000 No one had the capacity. 21:44.000 --> 21:49.000 No one organizer of each of those meetups had the capacity to organize something once a month 21:49.000 --> 21:50.000 regularly. 21:50.000 --> 21:52.000 So we said, let's stop organizing separate stuff. 21:52.000 --> 21:59.000 And let's make a group of organizers that can support one another to build one singular 21:59.000 --> 22:04.000 up that can then also branch off into support for niches, more niches. 22:04.000 --> 22:09.000 And the thinking there is also that as a more cohesive group, we can get support easier. 22:09.000 --> 22:15.000 Instead of the data science meetup which is 15 people going to a local company and saying 22:15.000 --> 22:20.000 hey can you buy his pizza, it's a large group of a couple hundred people saying hey can your 22:20.000 --> 22:23.000 name is going to get in front of a couple hundred people can you buy his pizza. 22:23.000 --> 22:25.000 And we're hoping that will happen. 22:25.000 --> 22:26.000 Because we did just start doing this. 22:26.000 --> 22:33.000 So what we did, the quick answer to this is we connected all the organizers into one group of 22:33.000 --> 22:36.000 organizers and we're continuously inviting more people to come organize. 22:36.000 --> 22:39.000 Some of us have a lot of experience in organizing, some of us are just getting into it. 22:39.000 --> 22:41.000 So we're also teaching people to organize. 22:41.000 --> 22:45.000 Which is something that I separate from all of this, something that gets critical for open source 22:45.000 --> 22:46.000 but even more organizers. 22:46.000 --> 22:49.000 But that's expanding from there. 22:49.000 --> 22:50.000 So it's meetups. 22:50.000 --> 22:55.000 We want to grow into hackathons and we want to start inviting the local community into these sort of 22:55.000 --> 22:56.000 conversations. 22:56.000 --> 22:58.000 Our first meetup was fantastic. 22:58.000 --> 23:04.000 It was at UVM which is literally an institution on a hill in a classroom that it feels 23:04.000 --> 23:08.000 very disconnected from local communities and it was a bunch of brilliant tech community 23:08.000 --> 23:10.000 people that are talking about amazing things. 23:10.000 --> 23:13.000 But there is no one from the local community there. 23:13.000 --> 23:18.000 There needs to be meetups and hackathons. 23:19.000 --> 23:24.000 Can you see how to brush them up and move up intermediate to the new episodes that 23:24.000 --> 23:28.000 meet them now and they can have like only half of the time with them. 23:28.000 --> 23:30.000 And that's possible. 23:30.000 --> 23:35.000 The other way is that they'll help remind the people that it's community reports. 23:35.000 --> 23:36.000 Yeah. 23:36.000 --> 23:37.000 And I apologize. 23:37.000 --> 23:39.000 I didn't repeat that question, which is how do we start this? 23:39.000 --> 23:44.000 And this question is have I seen a project grow up so big that it becomes self-sustaining 23:44.000 --> 23:45.000 essentially? 23:45.000 --> 23:58.000 I don't think they're making nothing comes to mind where they reach that end state. 23:58.000 --> 24:06.000 But there is a project out of the Portland and not main Oregon which is Northwest 24:06.000 --> 24:11.000 US where they created software that helps. 24:11.000 --> 24:13.000 I'm going to use some of the wrong words here so forgive me. 24:13.000 --> 24:14.000 But someone goes to jail. 24:14.000 --> 24:16.000 They get a stain on the record that they've been in jail. 24:16.000 --> 24:19.000 And when you get out of jail, it makes it really difficult to get a job. 24:19.000 --> 24:23.000 And in order to get that thing sort of removed from your record, you have to go through a process 24:23.000 --> 24:26.000 which can take a lot of time and money and it's prohibitive. 24:26.000 --> 24:29.000 So you don't have a job, you don't have time and money. 24:29.000 --> 24:33.000 You have to now spend time and money to get this thing removed so you can get a job. 24:33.000 --> 24:35.000 It's kind of mad. 24:35.000 --> 24:40.000 So what this group did is they created open software that now cost $50 instead of like $500 24:40.000 --> 24:44.000 or $1,000 to get this thing removed from your record so you can go into jail. 24:44.000 --> 24:46.000 And that has been incredibly successful. 24:46.000 --> 24:51.000 And the local government in the Northwest looks at it and appreciates it. 24:51.000 --> 24:58.000 They're also working on digital identity for just people, always open source software, just fantastic. 24:58.000 --> 25:00.000 I forget what the group is called. 25:00.000 --> 25:04.000 But his name is Hugh and he's out of the Pacific Northwest and check it out. 25:04.000 --> 25:05.000 He does great work.