WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:13.040 All right, so hi everyone, my name is Timothy Gelsner, I'm part of the Indiosters of 00:13.040 --> 00:20.280 hosting provider and also lashoot.com and today I want to introduce you lashoot.com and 00:20.280 --> 00:25.240 this kind of hybrid models that we are pushing for rather with a public Cooperative and 00:25.240 --> 00:30.040 common model. So today, across Europe, like institutions are seeking for 00:30.040 --> 00:34.680 credible sovereign and opponent alternatives to proprietary plot 00:34.680 --> 00:41.200 platforms. And we believe that this model can be a blueprint for the future 00:41.200 --> 00:46.840 repented digital commands. So let's start with the basics. We're at first 00:46.840 --> 00:52.800 them. It's also about the pencils for sure. And why do we choose 00:52.800 --> 00:57.800 the pencils? So we choose the pencils for let's get them the lock-in for transparency. 00:57.800 --> 01:03.120 And we usually adopt the pencils to escape this dependency, but yet we often 01:03.120 --> 01:08.280 remain dependent on the economic actor behind it. And what we actually mean by 01:08.280 --> 01:15.040 sovereignty is not to it's rarely made explicit. So as I said, open source 01:15.040 --> 01:18.880 removes technical lock-in, but often leaves it for a particular dependency. It 01:18.880 --> 01:26.440 gives you legal freedom, but not necessarily the decision power. So actually 01:26.440 --> 01:29.640 open source is not really about sovereignty. 01:29.640 --> 01:35.760 sovereignty is about who is funding it and the funding will shape all the 01:35.760 --> 01:43.000 priorities against the products. And so before everything else, it's always a 01:43.000 --> 01:46.960 survival of the actor with maintaining and developing the infrastructure 01:46.960 --> 01:52.120 on the the open source software. And most of those open source software 01:52.120 --> 01:55.920 depend on the single economic actor. That was a really mentioning. And when 01:55.920 --> 02:00.920 the survival depends on growth and revenue concentration, governance will always 02:00.920 --> 02:05.360 comes after. So I'm actually not here, but to make a trial on private 02:05.360 --> 02:11.080 entities. It's only about intentions and incentives. 02:11.080 --> 02:20.240 So sovereignty is actually about trade-offs. It's about decisions and decisions 02:20.240 --> 02:27.240 that are unavailable and a very diverse way. It's about when the system is 02:27.240 --> 02:32.280 under stress, who has the product decided. And we have seen this in all the 02:32.280 --> 02:38.080 products. We have to take decisions, we write prices, we do support. Should we 02:38.080 --> 02:42.560 change licenses or slow development? Should we take more capitals, accept 02:42.560 --> 02:46.280 limits, develop more features or concentrate on considering dating the 02:46.280 --> 02:49.400 core of the product, accept more configuration, which kind of 02:49.400 --> 02:53.000 contribution are we accepting. And we think this more and more with this 02:53.000 --> 02:58.360 open core models. And usually open source is used to enter or market and then 02:58.360 --> 03:04.000 capturing the values by closing it. And how we can take decisions in this 03:04.000 --> 03:12.040 strategy. So actually licenses don't decide. It's a governance that does 03:12.040 --> 03:17.080 and decisions will define rights, but governance defines who decides when 03:17.080 --> 03:20.800 right conflicts with constraints. And so where it is actually the poverty 03:20.800 --> 03:26.240 decide, especially when choices are hard and infrastructure under stress. 03:26.240 --> 03:30.200 And we are seeing this a lot actually at the moment. We all know the 03:30.200 --> 03:36.400 political situation. And we are seeing like hard decision and we are 03:36.400 --> 03:41.200 really dependency on this infrastructure that are US based or 03:41.200 --> 03:49.000 properties. So as I was saying, Europe, Europe, Europe in 03:49.000 --> 03:52.200 institutions are seeking for credible solution for sovereignty and 03:52.200 --> 03:57.680 open alternatives. And I want to introduce you one initiative that was 03:57.680 --> 04:02.960 done in France, called Lasvites, which I think is a really bold step in that 04:02.960 --> 04:07.280 direction. And it's something quite news that is really shaping a new 04:07.280 --> 04:14.080 landscape. And it's a very unique new way to do things. So a public 04:14.080 --> 04:19.800 institution decided to develop a heightened open source software. With this 04:19.800 --> 04:25.520 ambition to demonstrate that we can maintain commands with a public 04:25.520 --> 04:29.280 institution for the public good and the public interest. And there's 04:29.280 --> 04:33.160 also other initiatives in Europe happening. So, for instance, in Germany, 04:33.160 --> 04:37.160 there is an open-desk initiative, which is a bit different. It's a more 04:37.160 --> 04:42.080 traditional path that decided to partnership with more established 04:42.080 --> 04:46.920 sources of software editors, which is also an interesting path. But really 04:46.920 --> 04:50.520 with Lasvites, we are seeing this major shift with this public 04:50.520 --> 04:55.240 entity, developing a bunch of software by themselves. And so Lasvites is 04:55.240 --> 05:05.520 not a procurement. So this matters, but what really matters is that 05:05.520 --> 05:10.320 commands need an ecosystem. With that an ecosystem, commands will be 05:10.320 --> 05:14.960 fragmented, captured, or even disappeared. So we have Lasvites, OK, we have 05:14.960 --> 05:20.160 this public interest by design. It's reusable beyond the state. And it's a 05:20.160 --> 05:23.880 relatively upstream. But yeah, we need this ecosystem of different 05:23.880 --> 05:28.720 actors to provide support, to provide hosting, to provide adoption, 05:28.720 --> 05:37.920 training, and a long-term maintenance. So interlaces.com. And that's where 05:37.920 --> 05:41.840 we want to jump in with our model of multi-stake holders 05:41.840 --> 05:45.600 cooperative. We are users, workers, public and private actors are 05:45.600 --> 05:49.800 actually corners of the entity. So this is really how users can 05:49.800 --> 05:53.280 begin to control the direct justice access, but we are 05:53.280 --> 05:55.920 controlling the governance on the decisions. 05:59.640 --> 06:02.760 So the root of the Lasvite.com is the different service providers that 06:02.760 --> 06:06.560 are committed to open and democratic digital infrastructure. It's 06:06.560 --> 06:11.760 actually a various cooperative that are getting together to provide a 06:11.760 --> 06:15.560 shared infrastructure, to share responsibility and share 06:15.560 --> 06:19.240 roadmap, and to provide service together. So it's a virtualization of 06:19.240 --> 06:22.760 our competition. So you have India itself, which has a 06:22.760 --> 06:27.800 empire of. So we are historically hosting provider. So we manage the 06:27.800 --> 06:33.360 hosting part. Yard.com, which is a developer cooperative. So they 06:33.360 --> 06:38.560 can work on developing integration, debugging, and improving the 06:38.560 --> 06:42.040 software. So I'm contributing to the commands. I have the 06:42.040 --> 06:46.840 Bureau.com, which we provide the domain names. I'll go which work on 06:46.840 --> 06:51.320 the email offer in our service. And also open source 06:51.320 --> 06:55.840 politics, which work more on the project management, training, 06:55.840 --> 07:00.160 and helping people to add up the software and to use it the 07:00.160 --> 07:07.120 right way. So it's about building a command bay, the 07:07.120 --> 07:09.680 ecosystem, it's about interoperability, interoperability, 07:09.680 --> 07:13.480 in that exclusivity. So it's how we work in synergy with 07:13.480 --> 07:17.040 multiple stakeholders, so public institutions with last 07:17.040 --> 07:21.360 feet, but also private actors that want to provide the service 07:21.360 --> 07:28.720 or run this. So it's about subordinating the economic 07:28.720 --> 07:33.240 activity to the collective governance. There's no venture 07:33.240 --> 07:37.960 capital, no enclosure. It's a real share layer of collaboration 07:37.960 --> 07:41.080 without capture. And here the power is really distributed by 07:41.080 --> 07:44.720 design. There's no single actor, because that can decide by 07:44.720 --> 07:48.480 itself. And the core, in some ways, becomes more an 07:48.480 --> 07:55.640 consistent system fewer than a gatekeeper. So 07:55.640 --> 07:58.120 concretely, what do we offer? So we offer various services 07:58.120 --> 08:01.360 that are based on last feet tools. So last feet is a kind of 08:01.360 --> 08:05.200 digital workspace. You have software to take notes 08:05.200 --> 08:08.920 collaboratively. So called docs. You have grists, which is 08:08.920 --> 08:13.960 an occurred database. You have drives to share files. You have 08:13.960 --> 08:17.720 the chat service with metrics and elements. You have the 08:17.720 --> 08:21.080 video conferences with meet and you have also a mail 08:21.080 --> 08:24.360 offer. So this is the core of the offer that we want to provide 08:24.360 --> 08:28.600 and that we work to contribute with last feet, let's 08:28.600 --> 08:34.400 you go up. And we also provide more like add on services that 08:34.400 --> 08:38.400 we can add also. But the main core of our 08:38.400 --> 08:44.040 offer is to focus on this collaborative tools. And so this is 08:44.040 --> 08:46.920 not a potential economy. We want to set up the business model 08:46.920 --> 08:50.960 on a virtual cycle for the commands. And the idea is to give 08:50.960 --> 08:54.040 back a share of our income to the community and to the 08:54.040 --> 08:59.120 commands. So they are maintained in the long term. And yeah, 08:59.120 --> 09:01.360 it really is the idea is to fund the command and all its 09:01.360 --> 09:04.880 supply chain, not only your part. And to really contribute 09:04.880 --> 09:08.040 to it and to have this broad offer with various service 09:08.040 --> 09:12.680 providers, which one who have their own expertise. And that 09:12.680 --> 09:19.600 can provide a common service. So why does this match are 09:19.600 --> 09:24.120 beyond fronts? We think this can be a blueprint, which also 09:24.120 --> 09:28.320 countries or initiatives can get inspired by. So it's a 09:28.320 --> 09:31.320 replicable model. It can go beyond the speed of having 09:31.320 --> 09:35.040 resources. It can be done in many countries. If this kind of 09:35.040 --> 09:38.040 cooperative is quite specific in France, it's multi-stakeholder 09:38.040 --> 09:43.520 schema. And what we are seeing here is that last 09:43.520 --> 09:47.360 feet shows how a public actor can add it to digital 09:47.360 --> 09:51.240 command. And we've last feet.com, we show how an ecosystem 09:51.240 --> 09:56.880 can operate and sustain it and make synergies together. But 09:56.880 --> 09:59.760 maybe I think there's a kind of a still missing layer in this 10:00.520 --> 10:04.160 broader place where we can coordinate, protect and fund the 10:04.160 --> 10:07.520 commands, be on a single country or on a single ecosystem. 10:10.440 --> 10:14.600 And maybe this can be done with this new initiative that is 10:14.600 --> 10:18.160 coming in, that has been set up in Europe. So the European 10:18.160 --> 10:23.280 Digital Infrastructure Consortium, Edick. And this provides 10:23.280 --> 10:27.120 this new layer with a broader spectrum with different countries 10:27.120 --> 10:29.400 collaborating together. So there's Germany, France, 10:29.840 --> 10:32.160 and the Netherlands, I think, also on different countries that are 10:32.160 --> 10:37.600 applying to join. And then there you have this institutionalized 10:37.600 --> 10:41.160 bodies that can really work on protecting the 10:41.160 --> 10:45.320 commands and to provide a robust infrastructure. 10:47.880 --> 10:50.000 We can see some red flags also, see, because we're 10:50.000 --> 10:54.360 talking about the institutes. It's a very political 10:54.360 --> 10:56.840 game here. And I think we have contributors to this 10:56.840 --> 11:00.600 ecosystem. We need to make our voice heard and read work 11:00.600 --> 11:04.880 together. So we can have this place for real collaboration and 11:04.880 --> 11:07.880 to have these credible solutions together. 11:13.640 --> 11:18.600 OK. So let's take a quick break here. We've seen this 11:18.600 --> 11:22.080 kind of three layered synergies that I wanted to introduce with 11:22.080 --> 11:26.040 this public entity, Editing Commons. And ecosystem of factors 11:26.040 --> 11:29.040 that want to sustain it and provide it to the broader 11:29.040 --> 11:35.040 public. And a bigger, bigger entity, that one is that 11:35.040 --> 11:39.320 could protect fund and drive this because it was 11:39.320 --> 11:43.680 also convinced. So we are on this track about public 11:43.680 --> 11:47.360 digital infrastructure for Europe. And I think I want to 11:47.360 --> 11:51.920 conclude this presentation on one main message. 11:51.920 --> 11:58.920 So open source is actually not an end. 11:58.920 --> 12:01.920 The commands are not an end. They are only methods. 12:01.920 --> 12:05.920 They are ways to shock or enable reviews, reduce technical 12:05.920 --> 12:08.920 locking, share resources, organize governance, distribute 12:08.920 --> 12:11.920 power, but it's not an end by itself. Open source 12:11.920 --> 12:14.920 matters because of what it enables, not because of the 12:14.920 --> 12:18.920 license itself. And commands are about how decisions are 12:18.920 --> 12:22.920 made and not just how resources are shared. And what we 12:22.920 --> 12:25.920 have to ask ourselves is really what the goal that we want to 12:25.920 --> 12:31.920 set together. And I think this goal is about how we have 12:31.920 --> 12:35.920 shared capacity to decide overall digital infrastructure. 12:35.920 --> 12:38.920 And as I mentioned, it's really obvious now. 12:38.920 --> 12:41.920 It's something that most open source advocates and 12:41.920 --> 12:44.920 command of advocates have been raising the alarm for a while. 12:44.920 --> 12:48.920 But we are seeing with Trump some hard choice that are 12:48.920 --> 12:52.920 decisions that showed how dependent we are from those 12:52.920 --> 12:55.920 infrastructure. Like for instance, with the international 12:55.920 --> 12:59.920 court, a criminal court that has been cut off of 12:59.920 --> 13:03.920 Microsoft services and judges that have been cut off of 13:03.920 --> 13:07.920 the visa protocol. And we've seen that they can really 13:07.920 --> 13:10.920 unplug us. And this is quite dramatic. So we need to 13:10.920 --> 13:14.920 organize. If it's not really too late in some ways. But 13:14.920 --> 13:18.920 so we need to work together using those tools, open 13:18.920 --> 13:21.920 source and commands and shared governance to build 13:21.920 --> 13:25.920 these features that we want. And really, like if 13:25.920 --> 13:27.920 sovereignty is something that matters, governance really 13:27.920 --> 13:32.920 matters more than licenses. So that's the direction 13:32.920 --> 13:38.920 that we're trying to build with lsp.co. And we think this 13:38.920 --> 13:42.920 is only the beginning. So it's not silver bullet. It's just a 13:42.920 --> 13:45.920 direction that we think it's worth building together. It's a 13:45.920 --> 13:49.920 different path for digital sovereignty, to going from 13:49.920 --> 13:53.920 public software to share digital infrastructure and to 13:53.920 --> 13:57.920 come on the base ecosystem. And I really invite you to 13:57.920 --> 14:02.920 contribute to this and use this. This really has a blueprint for 14:02.920 --> 14:06.920 your own initiatives and to work together. So we can build 14:06.920 --> 14:12.920 this robust infrastructure. So actually, I went pretty fast. 14:12.920 --> 14:16.920 I'm really on an environmental time. But let's give 14:16.920 --> 14:20.920 us a lot of room for questions. So thank you. And if you 14:20.920 --> 14:24.920 want to see what we're doing, let's do this website 14:24.920 --> 14:28.920 tutorial. And if you have questions, I'm here to 14:28.920 --> 14:38.920 answer. 14:38.920 --> 14:41.920 Thank you for the presentation and the highlighting of 14:41.920 --> 14:44.920 the system. I'm just wondering, you know, this is pretty much an 14:44.920 --> 14:47.920 operation model if you're just right. But what I'm going to have 14:47.920 --> 14:50.920 you want to be back to the dual features project, which we're 14:50.920 --> 14:53.920 operating in the list in the like an art, who 14:53.920 --> 14:57.920 is trying to come to use in the right money. 14:57.920 --> 15:01.920 Yeah. So the questions about how much do we really 15:01.920 --> 15:07.920 contribute back to the open source model, the open source 15:07.920 --> 15:12.920 software that we use. So actually what I didn't really mention is that 15:12.920 --> 15:16.920 this project is being built. It will be officially, like 15:16.920 --> 15:19.920 the legal entity will be officially launched the first of 15:19.920 --> 15:24.920 years. But in our business model, we defined a share that 15:24.920 --> 15:28.920 will be, that will go back to the software. So obviously, 15:28.920 --> 15:32.920 we need also to be sustainable ourselves. So it will be 15:32.920 --> 15:35.920 probably gradual. But we hope to at least give something like 10 15:35.920 --> 15:38.920 percent of the revenue back to the community. So easier by 15:38.920 --> 15:42.920 contributing ourselves with our own resources. So contributing 15:42.920 --> 15:45.920 to the card and helping you predict it. But also to 15:45.920 --> 15:49.920 giving back to the project. And that's where I think it's important that 15:49.920 --> 15:53.920 we have another kind of foundation like entity, not for 15:53.920 --> 15:57.920 profit, where we which can shape this kind of funding and 15:57.920 --> 16:01.920 where everyone like us can put a bit of money there. And 16:01.920 --> 16:04.920 I think it's it's it's it's it's more sense if it's not for 16:04.920 --> 16:08.920 profit. So we can have this common goal together and not just 16:08.920 --> 16:13.920 nourishing an entity that is or that usually is capturing 16:13.920 --> 16:16.920 some of the other values or has the other decision 16:16.920 --> 16:19.920 power. And that's why I wanted also to introduce the 16:19.920 --> 16:22.920 saidy thing, which could be it. I don't know, 16:22.920 --> 16:27.920 honestly, it's really some, I hide political games on 16:27.920 --> 16:32.920 this. So we'll see, but we have to act so we can make it 16:32.920 --> 16:33.920 happen. 16:33.920 --> 16:47.920 So the question is, is there a municipality, 16:47.920 --> 16:50.920 connectivity is a region that are using those solutions. 16:50.920 --> 16:55.920 So last week is deployed already. And there's a 16:55.920 --> 16:59.920 southern of agents, public agents using it. And there's 16:59.920 --> 17:04.920 actually a last week with Vladimir, which is a digital entity 17:04.920 --> 17:09.920 that managed the digital agency agency for the state. 17:09.920 --> 17:12.920 That is deployed so for public agents and you also have 17:12.920 --> 17:15.920 entity, which is deploying this feed for small 17:15.920 --> 17:18.920 collectivities. So all collectivities that are under 17:18.920 --> 17:22.920 three thousand inhabitants, I think, can use last 17:22.920 --> 17:25.920 week on are using last week. And for instance, one of 17:25.920 --> 17:27.920 the tools that is really really used is 17:28.920 --> 17:32.920 and likely is a French state. Also, maybe you've seen it 17:32.920 --> 17:35.920 a bit following this famous diverse talk of our 17:35.920 --> 17:40.920 great president. They say that they are moving out of 17:40.920 --> 17:43.920 teams, and they want all public agent to use 17:43.920 --> 17:48.920 their video conference solution. So it's being 17:48.920 --> 17:49.920 deployed. 17:58.920 --> 18:03.920 Yeah, they're talking about last week. And as 18:03.920 --> 18:07.920 as last week.com, we want to like bridge the gap. So 18:07.920 --> 18:10.920 there's a public agent, small collectivities that can 18:10.920 --> 18:13.920 use last week. And as we want to provide to the 18:13.920 --> 18:16.920 providers to the others. So private actors, the 18:16.920 --> 18:20.920 families, cooperatives, but also to authors, public 18:20.920 --> 18:22.920 entities that are not in the scope. So bigger 18:22.920 --> 18:24.920 security or collectivities. 18:52.920 --> 18:54.920 We want to hold this. 18:54.920 --> 18:57.920 We want to hold this. 19:00.920 --> 19:03.920 Is this platform international? 19:03.920 --> 19:06.920 I mean, it's a foreign sub-elect. 19:06.920 --> 19:08.920 So yeah, the question is, is this platform 19:08.920 --> 19:11.920 international? So it's mostly in France, 19:11.920 --> 19:12.920 that there's collaboration with the countries like 19:12.920 --> 19:16.920 Zones, and also, we've been with Germany. 19:16.920 --> 19:18.920 So some part of the presentation, there's a 19:18.920 --> 19:21.760 There is some integration, I think it protects with dogs, 19:21.760 --> 19:23.920 for instance, if I'm right. 19:23.920 --> 19:28.520 But this is a, it's a no big shift to be international. 19:28.520 --> 19:30.800 And that's also what is the ADIC is about. 19:30.800 --> 19:34.920 Is that, is that, is that, is that not the link that can be translated 19:34.920 --> 19:35.720 in the Netherlands? 19:35.720 --> 19:37.360 Yeah, yeah, I think it's already done. 19:37.360 --> 19:40.360 There's already translations for all those tools. 19:40.360 --> 19:41.400 And you can contribute to it. 19:41.400 --> 19:43.600 I think it actually ducks made the call for this. 19:43.600 --> 19:46.600 So if you're language is not there, you can contribute. 19:46.600 --> 19:48.600 Over there, back to the back. 19:48.600 --> 19:49.800 Did I ask them, right? 19:49.800 --> 19:51.600 And how are you actually, 19:51.600 --> 19:53.600 if you're not going to know what to do, 19:53.600 --> 19:55.600 so how does it look? 19:55.600 --> 19:58.600 So yeah. 19:58.600 --> 20:01.600 So the question is about how we do, 20:01.600 --> 20:04.600 we, we colorate it goes up providers, 20:04.600 --> 20:06.600 like next cloud, for instance. 20:06.600 --> 20:09.600 So actually last week is built on, 20:09.600 --> 20:10.600 open source blocks. 20:10.600 --> 20:12.600 So for instance, ducks is built on, 20:13.600 --> 20:15.600 so there's collaboration with the block. 20:15.600 --> 20:17.600 So there's a developer. 20:17.600 --> 20:22.600 And so somehow there's a JSON collaboration on the scope of the tools of those tools. 20:22.600 --> 20:25.600 We've next cloud, it's actually a different solution. 20:25.600 --> 20:28.600 So next cloud could integrate some solutions of less feed, 20:28.600 --> 20:30.600 like ducks, or the collaborative editing. 20:30.600 --> 20:33.600 But it's a, it's a, it's actually another model. 20:33.600 --> 20:36.600 That's what I was talking about with the open desk, 20:36.600 --> 20:39.600 which is part of, which is part of, 20:39.600 --> 20:42.600 so this is a bit of different path, 20:42.600 --> 20:44.600 but I think they can be overlap, 20:44.600 --> 20:46.600 and that's where we need to be smart. 20:46.600 --> 20:48.600 But yeah, and the goal is definitely to work with the leaders, 20:48.600 --> 20:50.600 the collaborative grid, for instance, 20:50.600 --> 20:54.600 which is, which is a grid slab is the editor, 20:54.600 --> 20:57.600 and then with matrix also. 20:57.600 --> 21:00.600 And last week, Tim had some developers 21:00.600 --> 21:05.600 that are paid to work on contributing to those tools. 21:05.600 --> 21:09.600 So, okay. 21:09.600 --> 21:10.600 Okay. 21:10.600 --> 21:14.600 So the question is, what did value of last feed of our open desk, 21:14.600 --> 21:19.600 and what's the last feed, like what's the added value of last feed, 21:19.600 --> 21:21.600 and where's the overlap? 21:21.600 --> 21:22.600 Okay. 21:22.600 --> 21:27.600 So the question is, what did value of last feed of our open desk, 21:27.600 --> 21:29.600 and what's all up? 21:29.600 --> 21:31.600 So first, I want to say I'm from last feed.com, 21:31.600 --> 21:33.600 I'm not from last feed, so this is my point of view. 21:34.600 --> 21:37.600 And actually, there's the next talk about last feed, 21:37.600 --> 21:39.600 and from the public, 21:39.600 --> 21:41.600 the person that is part of the new, 21:41.600 --> 21:45.600 so we can also answer this question. 21:45.600 --> 21:47.600 But my point of view, as I said, 21:47.600 --> 21:49.600 this is like a really game changer, 21:49.600 --> 21:53.600 when the public entity is editing. 21:53.600 --> 21:55.600 It's not to private actor. 21:55.600 --> 21:58.600 I like next plot, I like those videos, 21:58.600 --> 22:02.600 but I think they still capture in some ways 22:02.600 --> 22:05.600 of the decision, and it's hard as a sometimes 22:05.600 --> 22:08.600 as a service provider to contribute back, 22:08.600 --> 22:12.600 as a like this commercial agreement to get, 22:12.600 --> 22:15.600 they are making decisions that I'm always, 22:15.600 --> 22:16.600 I don't always agree. 22:16.600 --> 22:20.600 And so I think here, we can read this landscape, 22:20.600 --> 22:25.600 with a broader kind of entities, 22:25.600 --> 22:27.600 public private, 22:27.600 --> 22:31.600 and it leaves room to this ecosystem, 22:31.600 --> 22:33.600 where everyone can contribute, 22:33.600 --> 22:36.600 and to another say in the decisions. 22:36.600 --> 22:38.600 And actually last feed is not there yet, 22:38.600 --> 22:40.600 it's something that I think they want, 22:40.600 --> 22:43.600 and that's something that we want to let you go up, 22:43.600 --> 22:46.600 and we want to demonstrate this people in the public, 22:46.600 --> 22:47.600 in the private sector, 22:47.600 --> 22:49.600 that want to play this game, 22:49.600 --> 22:51.600 and that it should go away, 22:51.600 --> 22:54.600 like it should escape them in some ways, 22:54.600 --> 22:57.600 and that we create this space for collaboration. 22:57.600 --> 22:59.600 But for me, it's really this kind of, 23:00.600 --> 23:03.600 when you're in this private sector, 23:03.600 --> 23:04.600 like you're on survival, 23:04.600 --> 23:07.600 we'll always be the driver for the decisions. 23:07.600 --> 23:10.600 And that thing, I think, is a risk for digital comments, 23:10.600 --> 23:12.600 some comments on general. 23:12.600 --> 23:14.600 So from it, this is the main difference, 23:14.600 --> 23:16.600 we've opened this, unless it. 23:16.600 --> 23:18.600 This opens this one. 23:18.600 --> 23:20.600 It's here, different philosophy, 23:20.600 --> 23:22.600 and different governance model. 23:23.600 --> 23:25.600 Thank you. 23:25.600 --> 23:26.600 The last one. 23:30.600 --> 23:31.600 Yeah. 23:31.600 --> 23:33.600 So on this one, 23:33.600 --> 23:35.600 maybe spend it's effort, 23:35.600 --> 23:37.600 or like, how much effort we spend, 23:37.600 --> 23:40.600 easing the migration away from others, 23:40.600 --> 23:43.600 on the speed of the course. 23:43.600 --> 23:44.600 Okay. 23:44.600 --> 23:46.600 So the question is about migration, 23:46.600 --> 23:48.600 how do we, what do we do to ease the migration 23:48.600 --> 23:51.600 from other solutions and property solutions, 23:52.600 --> 23:54.600 so this is actually something 23:54.600 --> 23:57.600 that we are working on planning to work on. 23:57.600 --> 24:00.600 It's not quite empty yet, 24:00.600 --> 24:02.600 but that's definitely a contribution, 24:02.600 --> 24:04.600 as a little bit of clubs that we want to do, 24:04.600 --> 24:06.600 and to provide like tools for, 24:06.600 --> 24:07.600 sorry. 24:07.600 --> 24:08.600 Yeah. 24:08.600 --> 24:09.600 And actually, I can, 24:09.600 --> 24:12.600 when I can give you some of our, 24:12.600 --> 24:13.600 for our engineers, 24:13.600 --> 24:14.600 so we've lasted up, 24:14.600 --> 24:15.600 we're planning to do fundraising, 24:15.600 --> 24:17.600 to actually have the means, 24:17.600 --> 24:19.600 to provide this kind of services and tools, 24:19.600 --> 24:20.600 and to really contribute back, 24:20.600 --> 24:22.600 like we need to have more financial, 24:22.600 --> 24:23.600 financial, financial progress, 24:23.600 --> 24:24.600 so in your stirs, 24:24.600 --> 24:25.600 on the speed of up, 24:25.600 --> 24:26.600 we are quite small at the moment, 24:26.600 --> 24:28.600 but we really want to, 24:28.600 --> 24:30.600 we have more people in our governance, 24:30.600 --> 24:32.600 and more funds to do this kind of things, 24:32.600 --> 24:33.600 and yet to work on the users, 24:33.600 --> 24:34.600 on the transition, 24:34.600 --> 24:36.600 and actually what is that with this tool, 24:36.600 --> 24:37.600 is, 24:37.600 --> 24:38.600 there's the adoption. 24:38.600 --> 24:39.600 Like when you have to change all view, 24:39.600 --> 24:40.600 you are a bit, 24:40.600 --> 24:43.600 it's not about only technical migration, 24:43.600 --> 24:44.600 it's also about, 24:44.600 --> 24:45.600 how we, 24:45.600 --> 24:47.600 we work on with trained people, 24:47.600 --> 24:48.600 to, 24:48.600 --> 24:49.600 to use those tools, 24:49.600 --> 24:50.600 that can be a bit different, 24:50.600 --> 24:51.600 and yeah, 24:51.600 --> 24:52.600 you're always this, 24:52.600 --> 24:54.600 resistance to change, 24:54.600 --> 24:55.600 and that need to be managed, 24:55.600 --> 24:56.600 and that's, 24:56.600 --> 24:57.600 what we want to do, 24:57.600 --> 24:58.600 if you like it.com. 24:58.600 --> 25:00.600 I think you really wanted to ask your questions, 25:00.600 --> 25:02.600 so maybe you can go for this one. 25:02.600 --> 25:03.600 I want you to understand, 25:03.600 --> 25:04.600 the time is over. 25:04.600 --> 25:05.600 Sorry, 25:05.600 --> 25:06.600 okay, 25:06.600 --> 25:07.600 we can talk, 25:07.600 --> 25:08.600 okay, 25:08.600 --> 25:09.600 thank you. 25:09.600 --> 25:10.600 Okay, thank you. 25:10.600 --> 25:11.600 Thank you. 25:17.600 --> 25:19.600 Thank you.