WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:10.800 Hello everyone. Good morning on the second day. For them, here today we have 00:10.800 --> 00:18.000 lightning dogs in our different room and we will start with first presentation by 00:18.000 --> 00:24.000 Richard Linn about to open source look different in China. Please welcome. 00:24.800 --> 00:32.000 Okay, very happy to on time and happy to see you in the beginning. 00:32.000 --> 00:40.400 And I can show you how to choose myself and I will share the three point of view 00:40.400 --> 00:48.000 of the Chinese open source development. And who am I? I'm Richard Linn. And my 00:48.000 --> 00:55.360 I'm actually Taiwanese, but right now I live and working in China for 12 years. 00:55.360 --> 01:03.680 So when I was a student, I am the researcher in the Akatemiya Senika, 01:03.680 --> 01:09.600 it's the famous research center in Taiwan and I let open source of a 01:09.600 --> 01:16.640 factory research in licensing, government and community building. While I organize a 01:16.640 --> 01:26.000 co-scop, do you have a co-scop booth in the K-Fro2? Maybe if you go to K-Fro2, 01:26.000 --> 01:31.680 there's a co-scop conference for open source software, a coder using a promoter. 01:31.680 --> 01:38.800 And I'm the organizer of co-scop then. And I know because I'm the researcher, 01:38.800 --> 01:45.920 I read many papers and I translate many, for example, what is the four freedoms? What is always 01:45.920 --> 01:53.840 always I always do? I introduce in traditional Chinese in Taiwan and introduce open source. And then 01:54.880 --> 02:02.240 so I think because I can read in Chinese, both Chinese and English, even my 02:02.240 --> 02:08.880 oral speaking is not good enough, but I can read English and the Chinese. So I introduce many things 02:08.880 --> 02:17.360 to Chinese and at that time I'm just in Taiwan, but my writing is spread to the Chinese and there 02:17.360 --> 02:24.080 are many open source developer in China and mail to me and ask me many things about open source. 02:24.080 --> 02:32.720 And then I go to China when a 12 years ago, 2014. And when I go to China, I think 02:32.720 --> 02:42.000 of there's no authentic open source atmosphere in China. Because there are very few Chinese 02:42.000 --> 02:48.000 open source developer, but there are so few. And most of the developers and the student don't know 02:48.000 --> 02:56.160 what is open source and don't care about open source. So I establish a Chinese means open source 02:56.160 --> 03:05.040 alliance or open source society or a community. Because this word has many means meanings in China. 03:05.040 --> 03:16.880 So in Chinese and I join a stop, it's a Chinese version, GitHub, okay. And the stop is failed 03:17.040 --> 03:25.760 in 2016. And then I join Huawei. So I have a working experience in Huawei. So I know much about 03:25.760 --> 03:32.080 what a big company will do open source and developer ecosystem. So I know a Chinese industry 03:32.080 --> 03:39.280 and a Chinese company is my set more. Yeah. And because this is a lightning talk, maybe I should 03:39.360 --> 03:49.280 go faster. And I see three things made that open source in China looks a little bit strange or 03:49.280 --> 04:01.360 weird or just a difference in China. One thing is a vendor-led reality. To our understanding 04:02.240 --> 04:12.720 in a traditional Western open source, we are grassroots, right. But enough. So we are the open 04:12.720 --> 04:19.360 source developer. And we have a project and a share for example on GitHub and engage many people 04:19.360 --> 04:26.720 join. And this is the tradition of the classic open source. But in China, because the tradition 04:26.800 --> 04:34.160 or the culture is not set. And some company, okay. For example, Ali Baba, like Huawei, like 04:34.160 --> 04:43.760 a very big company, they think open source is a thing. Maybe I should contribute. And why 04:43.760 --> 04:52.320 commercial company want to contribute? Because it's the money afterwards, yeah. So many Chinese people, 04:53.280 --> 05:00.800 sorry. Many Chinese companies are companies. Many Chinese companies, they think open source 05:00.800 --> 05:10.000 is a new standard, new de facto standard in the software industry. So they think if we just follow 05:10.000 --> 05:18.400 or use open source project, then we cannot have the control point of the technology and the industry. 05:18.480 --> 05:27.040 Because for example, I worked for Huawei for a long time. The open source team and the OSP OSP 05:27.040 --> 05:38.000 OSP is in Huawei's department called standard industry standard department. So Huawei's OSP 05:38.000 --> 05:47.440 is in industry standard department. And they will have strategies thinking of how can we 05:47.520 --> 05:55.680 how can Huawei join open source. So in the past 10 years, I remember Huawei joined many 05:55.680 --> 06:01.520 foundations like Lin's Foundation or Exlives Foundation or something. And they want to know more 06:01.520 --> 06:11.040 about how can they be very important influencer or control some open source project in the future. 06:11.040 --> 06:16.720 And not control the project, they control the standard because they think standard means the 06:16.720 --> 06:26.080 monopoly means the money. So they think it is a I learned from Huawei and in government, I say 06:26.080 --> 06:34.400 the Chinese government has a five-year plan. Because it's a planning economy system, right? 06:34.400 --> 06:43.040 So they have five-year plan. And the 14th is a start from 2018. Okay, the 14th, five-year plan. 06:45.360 --> 06:52.560 They want to do open source as a nation knows strategy. And the Chinese government establish 06:52.560 --> 07:02.000 a open-arton open source foundation. Open-arton open source foundation. And so Huawei, they donate 07:02.000 --> 07:09.040 there many of projects like open harmony. Because you maybe heard of harmony OS in Huawei's 07:09.040 --> 07:14.800 phone, right? And Huawei think Android is controlled by Google and the Google control by American 07:14.800 --> 07:23.360 government. So if we if Huawei use Android and maybe someday we'll be sanctioned. And it happens in 07:23.360 --> 07:34.480 2019, right? 2019, Huawei has been sanctioned by the US government. So the government establish 07:34.480 --> 07:41.120 a foundation open atom foundation and Huawei donate the open harmony and the many the open source 07:41.120 --> 07:48.000 project. And what I think is if they have been sanctioned, then the open source cannot be sanctioned, 07:48.000 --> 07:57.920 right? Open source project. So maybe their ecosystem partner over the world in the world, 07:57.920 --> 08:06.800 they can use open harmony to be the upstream. Then, yeah, yeah, do the many distribution 08:06.800 --> 08:15.520 from open harmony. Yeah, so I think it is a de facto rules and monopoly into profit. So 08:15.520 --> 08:20.880 this is some big company like Huawei, like Ali Baba, like for example now, 08:20.880 --> 08:29.600 Ali Baba has a very famous quint, QQ, WE and quint, LLM. And they open the weights, they 08:29.600 --> 08:36.000 so-called open source LLM, but I call it open weights. They open the LLM and the series, 08:36.480 --> 08:46.960 series LLM and the VLM and many open weights model. So they want to be the monopoly. 08:46.960 --> 08:57.280 And they think monopoly means we can earn money in the future. And I think, for example, in China, 08:57.280 --> 09:05.840 it's cathedral, the design, not a bizarre, a top-down design first. So for example, 09:05.840 --> 09:12.880 I'm employee and a developer in the big company. So there are so many employees just want to deliver 09:12.880 --> 09:19.440 what manages us to do. So the employee, the developers inside a company, they don't care about 09:19.520 --> 09:25.920 how they ignore open source culture and how to collaborate in a good way in the open source. 09:25.920 --> 09:37.600 So they just care about internal OKRs. They say, I give the code to the manager and it passed 09:37.600 --> 09:45.360 the QA and my job is done. So if there are any questions from the community, they ignore them. 09:46.240 --> 09:54.400 If they're managing, ask them to watch the outside, for example, issues, they will do it, 09:54.400 --> 10:02.400 because it just acts by the manager and by the company. And I think it's a private decisions 10:02.400 --> 10:08.480 and a public report. So it's a little bit strange, but I don't want to blend or I don't want 10:08.480 --> 10:14.880 to criticize this thing because it opens or something, even it's like a different weight, right? 10:14.960 --> 10:21.680 So it opens or something. Maybe it's useful to us. And so I think it's capital is bad. 10:24.240 --> 10:32.080 To my preference is bad. But it let it make a Chinese government know how to do open source 10:32.080 --> 10:40.720 and gradually, oh, five minutes. Gradually, they, they will learn what is real open source, 10:40.720 --> 10:51.360 how to do the player inside. And sometimes we have a metric. For example, I've ever seen a PR. 10:51.920 --> 10:59.120 It's just a single PR, but it divided to the five PRs to the developer. They send the five 10:59.120 --> 11:04.800 PRs actually, it just one PR. Why? Why do they do this? Because he's managing, actually, 11:04.880 --> 11:13.440 actually has a team to do more PRs. So it's a very strange, strange thing. And I think the 11:13.440 --> 11:20.160 management will be improved. And I see the improvement in the big commonly. So maybe it will, 11:21.360 --> 11:26.880 good. And I think the policy, I have mentioned the central plan, 11:27.520 --> 11:35.840 staff from the 2018. So I think Dipsick last year is encouraged many Chinese government 11:35.840 --> 11:42.720 and the companies say, oh, open source is the very best way to spread our, spread our project. 11:42.720 --> 11:51.120 I think Dipsick is a very unique example. But the open source, the wind is blowing the whole 11:52.080 --> 12:00.080 country and the industry. So maybe last year and the till now, there are so many open source 12:00.080 --> 12:11.360 projects start from the, so many open source start up. And especially in AI technology. And 12:11.360 --> 12:17.360 government funding, they will give some money to the company. And the company will say, oh, 12:17.360 --> 12:23.840 I get your subsidy. And I will give you some, show you some outcomes that is open source project. 12:23.840 --> 12:31.120 So Chinese government do much of this. And this year Beijing Shanghai and Hangzhou, 12:31.120 --> 12:37.760 there are so many policies to give the subsidy to the company. Then the company will contribute 12:37.760 --> 12:44.080 to some open source project. But the open source project may be not the Western open source project. 12:44.080 --> 12:52.000 It's on and that via the Chinese company. So maybe it's invisible here. But it's a very 12:52.000 --> 13:00.160 popular in China because they want to show their outcome to a Chinese, uh, yeah, also two, two minutes. 13:00.160 --> 13:08.800 Okay. So I think a risk five, many people know a China's chip industry, uh, use risk five. 13:08.880 --> 13:15.120 Because risk five is a, as I say, the you harbor because it's not controlled by American 13:15.840 --> 13:24.960 foundations. So and the many, uh, many projects like robotics and the humanoid is, uh, 13:24.960 --> 13:32.240 combine the open source and the open data to, uh, to do that, that, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 13:32.240 --> 13:38.000 that, that industry. But I don't see any of them come to Boston. Maybe they just focus on 13:38.080 --> 13:44.240 their customer. And there's no customer here. We, we are just a community member, right? So yeah, yeah. 13:44.240 --> 13:54.640 So, uh, just one minute. So maybe let me, uh, okay. Uh, I just pick the, uh, uh, let's say, 13:54.640 --> 14:03.280 market. Uh, uh, after the COVID, the Chinese economy is not so good, uh, uh, then before. So many 14:03.360 --> 14:08.720 little or the median little, uh, uh, uh, enterprise. They say, if we don't open source, then we will 14:08.720 --> 14:14.640 die. Okay. Why they want to open source? Because, um, they cannot sell to the domestic market 14:14.640 --> 14:20.320 because the Chinese, uh, the customer in China, they won't pay, uh, they won't pay. Even, uh, uh, 14:20.320 --> 14:25.360 uh, uh, uh, perpetrator or open source, they won't pay. So they want to, uh, share this open source 14:25.440 --> 14:31.920 product to the whole world. And maybe some from European, some from US, they will pay for the, uh, 14:31.920 --> 14:37.760 uh, the, the commercial edition, or something like that. So it's not about expansion. It's about 14:37.760 --> 14:46.240 die or survival. Yeah. So, uh, uh, economic detonation is a very, uh, very big issue. And so open source 14:46.240 --> 14:53.680 as a support and the monetization and it's some, some American US capital will invest some Chinese, 14:54.560 --> 15:01.360 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, to, uh, raise the money and the US market, not only open source one, for example, 15:01.920 --> 15:09.200 a mannus is a acquired by Meta, right? So, so, so mannus is a very, uh, good example. Mannus is a, uh, 15:09.200 --> 15:16.160 is a Wuhan team. And the, uh, headquarters goes to Singapore and then a acquired by Meta, just one year. 15:16.160 --> 15:18.760 And the evaluation is very high. 15:18.760 --> 15:22.680 So I think there's a new normal for China's staff 15:22.680 --> 15:24.200 to go abroad. 15:24.200 --> 15:28.120 OK, so actually, I'm from Kyivinsa, 15:28.120 --> 15:31.960 and we have our goal is to keep talking 15:31.960 --> 15:35.760 and that we want to build a bridge between Western 15:35.760 --> 15:37.520 and the Chinese open source community. 15:37.520 --> 15:42.840 We are the first OSI affiliate organization 15:42.840 --> 15:45.280 in China, and I'm the co-founder of Kyivinsa. 15:45.280 --> 15:49.280 So I think if you're interested to talk to me, 15:49.280 --> 15:51.880 you can add me on Lincoln, even Lincoln 15:51.880 --> 15:54.080 is not open source, that's powerful. 15:54.080 --> 15:55.520 But yeah, I know, I know. 15:55.520 --> 16:00.440 But sometimes, oh, you can send me email, 16:00.440 --> 16:02.440 reach out at the Kyivinsa.org. 16:02.440 --> 16:06.040 So you can find me at the Kyivinsa's booth 16:06.040 --> 16:07.960 in the K-24. 16:07.960 --> 16:09.440 So thank you very much. 16:09.440 --> 16:10.280 Thank you. 16:10.280 --> 16:14.280 Thank you, Richard.