WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:19.200 Hello, so this talk is going to be about how to make the best of a bit of a messy 00:19.200 --> 00:25.840 situation. So I'm Susie and I work at Wiki, media, Germany and I've been there for 00:25.840 --> 00:31.760 a year and I haven't got that much experience with translation so I'm hoping to learn 00:31.760 --> 00:37.600 stuff from you today but I'll show you the kinds of things that I've come across so far. 00:37.600 --> 00:42.240 The team I own is called Wiki data for Wiki media projects which is a real mouthful so 00:42.240 --> 00:49.360 I'll just explain a bit about what those things mean. So Wiki data is a structured data 00:49.440 --> 00:59.600 thing where you can put in information and it can be used across many different places such 00:59.600 --> 01:05.920 as the Wiki ideas, Wiki media system projects like Wiki quote as well as all of the different 01:05.920 --> 01:13.440 language Wiki pages. So an example of the kind of thing you could have is Brad Pitt and 01:14.160 --> 01:21.200 married to a property and another item and what that means is that if it's used in a lot of different 01:21.200 --> 01:26.240 language Wiki ideas you can update it in one place and then it propagates to everywhere else. 01:27.680 --> 01:33.600 So this helps because there's hundreds of language Wiki ideas which otherwise you would have 01:33.600 --> 01:40.720 had to edit separately every time anything updates in the world. So this reduces the number of times 01:40.800 --> 01:45.280 you have to edit a lot and it also particularly helps the smaller language Wiki 01:45.280 --> 01:51.600 ideas because they may have less active contributors and so we really want to support them as much 01:51.600 --> 01:58.960 as we can to have good knowledge. Wiki data supports multiple language because we have labels 01:58.960 --> 02:07.440 and so you can add in labels for the items and properties and stuff. So this talk will be on a few 02:08.080 --> 02:14.080 transition issue examples and the approaches we've taken so far and then I'll open it up for discussions 02:14.080 --> 02:21.840 that can get advice from you. So to set the context of where the changes are happening we can 02:21.840 --> 02:28.880 go to recent changes on Wikipedia so you can click recent changes and then you will see all of the 02:28.880 --> 02:34.240 recent changes that have been happening on your Wikipedia. I'm looking at Wiki data ones specifically 02:34.320 --> 02:40.960 so you can select the filter at the top for Wiki data edits and then you will see them and 02:41.840 --> 02:48.560 they are marked with a D which you can see in the key here and here you can see things are happening 02:48.560 --> 02:55.760 such as an image just being added or a language link is being added and the way it was I hope 02:55.760 --> 03:01.760 it's being enough for you to see but yeah down here you can see it said change claim property 31 03:01.760 --> 03:07.600 q whatever q is the item and this is very unclear what is happening and to know what's happening 03:07.600 --> 03:13.920 you would have to click through and through the link to Wiki data so we wanted to add labels 03:15.440 --> 03:19.360 to to make it more transparent what's happening so people would not need to make that extra click 03:21.120 --> 03:27.360 so the old let like that and the new we wanted to inject in the label of language spoken and 03:28.000 --> 03:35.680 Chinese and put the property and item ID in brackets also adding a roll over you know where you put 03:35.680 --> 03:41.760 the mouse over and then it would give more information so here we'll have on the roll over a title 03:41.760 --> 03:47.280 and a description the description can be quite long and it's separated by pipe separated and I mentioned 03:47.280 --> 03:53.440 these a pipe separated and brackets because though become a relevant later in the ground pulse 03:54.320 --> 04:01.440 so the way we do internationalization is we have these internationalization files they contain 04:01.440 --> 04:06.480 translations of the text but also of things like punctuation and the structure of things 04:07.760 --> 04:12.960 so one example file looks like this just has a translation for each different thing you might want to 04:12.960 --> 04:19.040 have appearing I was reading some of these files and found some interesting things such as 04:19.040 --> 04:25.840 in the Chinese language you got an extra space around both the brackets compared to the English 04:25.840 --> 04:38.320 and also in French the pipe separated was a colon instead but this was just in some places not 04:38.320 --> 04:44.000 in all places so yeah the languages have all their different personalizations which is really good 04:44.880 --> 04:51.280 and here's just another slide that shows a little bit more about this so the pipe separated here 04:51.280 --> 04:57.120 and this top one you have the one means the first argument which may for example be the title 04:57.760 --> 05:02.800 and the second one the two represents the description and so you put them in and then it will be 05:02.800 --> 05:13.600 the first and second and uses this method so the change we made was successful here it is we now 05:13.600 --> 05:18.640 know that there's a change claim that is an instrument and then it has a synthesizer and here's 05:18.640 --> 05:23.120 the roll over and how that looks with the title on the left and the description on the right 05:24.800 --> 05:31.840 but we wanted to check that it works another languages too so to do that we looked a lot of examples 05:32.400 --> 05:39.680 and we found some slightly strange stuff but first I'll show you the Arabic one so in the Arabic one 05:40.480 --> 05:47.920 we have the title here and then the pipe separated here and then the description after 05:47.920 --> 05:53.920 translated these to check the correct and the way that that works is for the right to left languages 05:53.920 --> 05:59.280 we have the other orders so we've got two on the left one on the right 05:59.280 --> 06:10.320 which is this language with Arabic yes yeah and by the way this is on the Arabic Wikipedia 06:15.120 --> 06:18.400 is it 06:18.400 --> 06:22.400 yeah I thought it was anyway 06:23.200 --> 06:30.400 okay so that is how we are putting the order differently for the right to left languages 06:32.560 --> 06:37.680 and in this example as you can see we've got a fallback happening so 06:39.920 --> 06:45.280 all of the language Wikipedia has had fallback languages sometimes they're not English 06:45.280 --> 06:49.520 are the majority of them it is English and in this case we've got a description that has not been 06:49.600 --> 06:58.240 translated so instead it uses the English label because it is present so you would this is on the 06:58.240 --> 07:06.160 Arabic Wikipedia you would start reading here and then you would have the left right English but I thought 07:06.160 --> 07:11.840 this looks odd because it almost looks like the description which is meant to be the less 07:11.920 --> 07:17.760 emphasised thing the thing you look not first at is sort of surrounding the title 07:19.040 --> 07:29.040 so I thought this is not ideal so also when both things were not translated yet in the Arabic 07:29.040 --> 07:35.360 Wikipedia we've got English here we've got the English title and then also the English description 07:35.920 --> 07:39.680 it's definitely not very readable in English because it really looks like you should start reading 07:39.680 --> 07:45.120 on the left and then you have the round title in the middle this is partly due to the 07:45.120 --> 07:49.440 placement of the two things in the pipe separated but also due with the alignment because at the 07:49.440 --> 07:57.760 bottom we've got it right aligned when you would normally expect left aligned yeah it is confusing 07:57.760 --> 08:01.120 when there's left to right and right to left and left to right when you're not expecting it 08:02.960 --> 08:07.520 I tried to put it into a diagram hopefully it will make sense to you so 08:08.240 --> 08:12.400 the hours here are talking about where the where the title comes and then the description 08:12.960 --> 08:21.200 so on the Arabic Wiki this is all about the Arabic Wiki we want to have it going right to left 08:21.200 --> 08:26.800 if there's both Arabic and Arabic for the title in description and we don't want this however 08:26.880 --> 08:37.840 what was happening for English is it was coming up as right to left just on our first attempt 08:37.840 --> 08:43.440 and then we would ideally want it going left to right if they're both English for the ones in the 08:43.440 --> 08:48.720 middle I wasn't really sure like what the best thing is and I'm still trying to figure that out 08:49.440 --> 08:58.880 I was wondering if it's maybe not straightforward to do the idea thing in all cases and because it's 08:58.880 --> 09:05.920 the Arabic Wikipedia we should focus on making it ideal for when it's awfully translated into Arabic 09:06.960 --> 09:11.680 and possibly be pragmatic that while it's the waiting for translations it may not look completely 09:11.680 --> 09:15.680 perfect although it would be best to have it making sense for everyone 09:16.400 --> 09:27.440 so we want to another example this one is about brackets this is a change we made as I said 09:27.440 --> 09:34.960 the language is spoken is added the Chinese is added and for Hebrew I wasn't sure whether it 09:34.960 --> 09:40.240 would look better to have either of these two options because in this one if you're starting 09:40.240 --> 09:47.120 out reading right to left you have the bracket second the title first then you have the title 09:47.120 --> 09:54.880 second sorry the title first the bracket second so maybe that makes more sense the bottom option 09:55.440 --> 10:01.520 but the middle one you have the starting from the right to left and this order but then when you're 10:01.520 --> 10:06.400 reading the left to right section is in this order but I thought it looked a bit funny because of the 10:06.480 --> 10:13.200 two brackets being in the middle when I don't know just doesn't look as consistent so I'm 10:13.200 --> 10:20.480 very interested here what you think about that um this is an example of it it's a bit hard to read 10:22.080 --> 10:28.960 so overall the approach is so far we have had a bin look at a lot of examples because I didn't 10:28.960 --> 10:34.400 even really know to anticipate that any of these would be an issue with the start use diagrams to make 10:34.400 --> 10:39.200 sure we've mapped out all the different combinations of things and know what we want them to be 10:39.200 --> 10:46.160 ideally be pragmatic and make the best of what can be done in the given time and improve iteratively 10:47.120 --> 10:53.280 so at least we can put something out there continue asking speakers of those languages 10:54.640 --> 11:02.640 because for example the Hebrew one one of the Hebrew speakers I asked said both of them looked fine 11:02.720 --> 11:14.160 so that's encouraging um consult the translations community yeah so do you have any questions or insights 11:21.440 --> 11:29.600 yeah so my question actually about all of this you're trying to find ideal solutions 11:30.240 --> 11:36.240 in general how tolerant are the Wikimedia site readers to all these problems 11:37.680 --> 11:46.080 that oh can you repeat the question you have asked how tolerant of the Wikimedia readers to these 11:46.080 --> 11:54.080 kinds of problems I actually don't know myself but when I look at say the Arabic Wikipedia I do see a 11:54.160 --> 12:00.160 lot of English words here and there so I would say at least the current state of things is a lot 12:00.160 --> 12:05.440 of things have been translated but I get the impression that they perhaps are used to some things 12:05.440 --> 12:09.120 being in English but it's a very good question and there's probably different very different 12:09.120 --> 12:17.120 depending on what language it is do you want to go? 12:17.360 --> 12:26.000 so it's not really a question but you have this one line template of the thing and then description 12:26.000 --> 12:31.440 made you a decision you have to log up to one separate line also the KELOLAND natural in by 12:31.440 --> 12:38.960 zone I think that is a really great idea I think it wouldn't apply in every situation because sometimes 12:38.960 --> 12:43.360 it's like swapping between multiple times but in this particular examples of really great idea that 12:43.360 --> 12:47.440 if we anticipate the whole description not being translated we could just put it another line thank you 12:49.520 --> 12:57.120 yes you said that most of the time when the translation is missing there is a full-back 12:57.120 --> 13:06.880 language but not long ways yeah how we find not far away is there some full-back language that exists 13:06.960 --> 13:13.440 some list of full-back languages or is it 100% provided by your community? 13:13.440 --> 13:20.480 I believe it's sorry about not repeating the question so the question is where did the fall-back 13:20.480 --> 13:26.320 language just come from? I don't know 100% but I think it's from the community and it is specified 13:26.320 --> 13:32.720 so there's a list like if you're in a particular language I think perhaps Brazilian Portuguese 13:32.800 --> 13:36.400 falls-backs related yes you can yeah go for it 13:36.400 --> 13:46.080 it's a mediocre core there is the PhD file that defines the language and there is simply a list of 13:46.080 --> 13:57.520 language codes that we decide for the fall-back and it is not time it is the English and the fall-back 13:57.840 --> 14:06.160 decided on pragmatic the sea reasons like what's the likelihood that it's clear off let's say 14:08.720 --> 14:15.440 in Italian dialect knows Italian it's very high so then Italian is the first quote back 14:17.440 --> 14:22.400 we basically have on the Unicode C of the R language history rate 14:22.640 --> 14:37.680 and then we have more questions yeah go for it 14:39.920 --> 14:49.840 so when there is no translation it will backstrain itself if few months later there is the 14:49.840 --> 14:55.440 translation that comes in French and arrived in one of the do you update order change work 14:55.440 --> 15:05.920 to make sure to reuse the translation? The question is if the label is added will it be updated to 15:05.920 --> 15:11.840 reuse the translation yes because we have changed propagation that when relevant things are added 15:11.840 --> 15:21.120 and Wikidata it my great and until all the Wikidians that use it yes did anyone else have questions 15:21.120 --> 15:22.960 I think I saw it yeah 15:41.840 --> 15:47.360 how they want to see it it's some extent it doesn't really matter if it looks weird to your eyes 15:48.160 --> 15:55.680 yes and it's everything and the Hebrew users they didn't deny they have to suffer from this 15:55.680 --> 16:00.800 fight that issues all the time they have their own way of live it to them just like how you guys 16:00.800 --> 16:06.960 allow French users to override the pipe to allow your fight that users beside their 16:06.960 --> 16:16.560 fighting and also consistency is more important than how every single item looks natural 16:17.280 --> 16:23.760 and the fundamentality on both Unicode and W3C have their own solid recommendation of how to 16:23.760 --> 16:29.840 mark out by the intent because you guys actually have to structure the data and so it's not like 16:29.920 --> 16:32.960 arbitrary either in Wikidata you have a syntax that's spoken starts 16:35.360 --> 16:41.120 y'all not a by that expert but I'm a unicorn in terms of if you have that there are those questions 16:43.120 --> 16:51.760 cool thank you yes I just want to add a Unicode technical report nine actually touch you how to do this 16:51.760 --> 16:59.600 it's big it's big there's a recommendation on how yours so so if you found this standard then 16:59.840 --> 17:06.320 in theory the user is able to choose what they want to see but basis solution is to step by 17:06.320 --> 17:13.120 then not mixing yes that which is both the recommendation of the second hundred four 17:13.120 --> 17:18.720 and you have to read that you have to read that you have to read that you have to read that 17:18.720 --> 17:27.120 multi double CC phr closed you are much better high level so double crazy customer 17:27.120 --> 17:34.400 whenever you can use Mark outs when you reached看一下 talk yes 17:34.400 --> 17:40.000 only when you two in residence or they'd probably use 17:40.000 --> 17:42.960 then you'll have to wait for the next nine. 17:42.960 --> 17:44.200 And they're a story. 17:44.200 --> 17:47.280 And they can't problems come to life if you are happy. 17:47.280 --> 17:50.440 So the question is, who is the same? 17:50.440 --> 17:51.280 Unicorn source. 17:51.280 --> 17:52.440 Unicorn intake. 17:52.440 --> 17:54.440 So you'll battle with electricity. 17:54.440 --> 17:56.680 Yeah, we're all volunteers, but I'm a coordinator 17:56.680 --> 17:58.720 and I'll ask them to give me a single standard. 17:58.720 --> 18:01.480 I do not work on steel, we'll be able to directly find it. 18:01.480 --> 18:04.480 I'm here because I know the community 18:04.480 --> 18:06.440 depends on me, but the steel, we are a lot. 18:06.440 --> 18:10.240 So if you also, you won't close their communication 18:10.240 --> 18:13.480 with steel, they are going to not know how come to me. 18:13.480 --> 18:16.280 I'm here to wear their hat for you. 18:16.280 --> 18:17.480 Oh, for me. 18:17.480 --> 18:18.640 I'm here to wear the hat for you. 18:18.640 --> 18:19.480 Great. 18:19.480 --> 18:20.480 And this is the question. 18:20.480 --> 18:22.480 We only have one microphone. 18:22.480 --> 18:25.600 Would you mind if we took that microphone? 18:25.600 --> 18:26.960 And you repeated the offer. 18:26.960 --> 18:28.000 It's just a joke. 18:28.000 --> 18:30.400 So does your steel, dear, I don't have to do it. 18:30.400 --> 18:31.800 Do you want to come out and use the mic? 18:31.800 --> 18:33.800 Yes, please. 18:33.800 --> 18:34.800 It's a microphone. 18:34.880 --> 18:39.000 And really, the offer and the microphone. 18:39.000 --> 18:40.280 And repeat your offer. 18:40.280 --> 18:41.120 The offer. 18:41.120 --> 18:42.480 Yeah, yeah. 18:42.480 --> 18:44.440 Still the offer, I'll leave it to him. 18:44.440 --> 18:47.480 But I, I, I, oh, oh. 18:47.480 --> 18:49.280 You want to be on top of that? 18:49.280 --> 18:50.480 On top of that? 18:50.480 --> 18:51.480 Yeah. 18:51.480 --> 18:52.480 Come on. 18:52.480 --> 18:55.280 This is how you guess. 18:55.280 --> 18:56.880 This is how you get to have a... 18:56.880 --> 18:58.480 I thought we were running on time. 19:01.480 --> 19:03.800 And wait, we also should clap for Suzanne 19:03.800 --> 19:04.800 because we... 19:04.800 --> 19:05.800 Yes. 19:05.800 --> 19:06.800 Thank you. 19:06.800 --> 19:07.800 Thank you. 19:07.800 --> 19:08.800 Thank you. 19:08.800 --> 19:10.800 I'm from time. 19:10.800 --> 19:11.800 OK. 19:11.800 --> 19:12.800 Unical consortium. 19:12.800 --> 19:13.800 We are NGO. 19:13.800 --> 19:16.800 So half of us, including me, is a volunteer. 19:16.800 --> 19:19.800 And but we, we're, very small group people. 19:19.800 --> 19:22.800 We work on both very low-level encoding problems too. 19:22.800 --> 19:23.800 So they are. 19:23.800 --> 19:26.800 And I see you guys know very much about that. 19:26.800 --> 19:27.800 Sorry. 19:27.800 --> 19:29.800 I didn't know you were there. 19:29.800 --> 19:35.800 So, but about by that, particularly UX9 by that algorithm mentioned, 19:35.800 --> 19:39.800 it's the low-level spec about how by that works. 19:39.800 --> 19:40.800 It's very, very complicated. 19:40.800 --> 19:45.800 It's one of our most complicated insanely obscure algorithm. 19:45.800 --> 19:49.800 And if you have to implement it, try not to implement it. 19:49.800 --> 19:54.800 Use existing solutions because it's way to our problem. 19:54.800 --> 19:57.800 And there are very solid solutions. 19:57.800 --> 20:03.800 And then, so that's why in terms of usage from localization point of view, 20:03.800 --> 20:10.800 I personally consider W3Cs on articles and tutorials are very useful. 20:10.800 --> 20:13.800 So they come from a web point of view. 20:13.800 --> 20:16.800 And whenever it's possible, even for this use case, 20:16.800 --> 20:19.800 I think it's possible to use HTML markup instead. 20:19.800 --> 20:21.800 It's far more maintainable. 20:21.800 --> 20:24.800 And when you really have to do plain text, 20:24.800 --> 20:27.800 W3Cs tutorial also tells you when you have to use 20:27.800 --> 20:29.800 Unical control characters, how to do them. 20:29.800 --> 20:32.800 Yeah, the offer is yes. 20:32.800 --> 20:39.800 And here, this time, no one from the team I'm familiar with are here. 20:39.800 --> 20:40.800 Sorry. 20:40.800 --> 20:44.800 I don't work with CLDR guys stat closely. 20:44.800 --> 20:46.800 But yes, if you have Unical questions, 20:46.800 --> 20:50.800 I personally work on complex language support, complex scripts, 20:50.800 --> 20:54.800 like Indian, Middle Eastern script support. 20:54.800 --> 20:58.800 They are rendering, phones, things. 20:58.800 --> 21:04.800 So it's between the level of encoding proper and localization. 21:04.800 --> 21:07.800 So if you have that kind of problem also come to me. 21:07.800 --> 21:10.800 Or any other problem, if you do not know how to reach out to us, 21:10.800 --> 21:14.800 we know Unical Consortium works in a way that we try to be very open 21:14.800 --> 21:18.800 by our website is ancient and people do not know how to reach out to us. 21:18.800 --> 21:22.800 And if you think we are really fucking something up, 21:22.800 --> 21:24.800 let me know. 21:24.800 --> 21:27.800 I'll make sure you can contribute to us directly. 21:27.800 --> 21:31.800 Yeah, usually it's because it's hard to find the place to contribute, 21:31.800 --> 21:33.800 we're quite open. 21:33.800 --> 21:35.800 How do we find you? 21:35.800 --> 21:38.800 Me personally, a Unical Consortium at Unical.org, 21:38.800 --> 21:41.800 but that website is shitty. 21:41.800 --> 21:43.800 My contact? 21:43.800 --> 21:45.800 Any contact we can reach about? 21:45.800 --> 21:50.800 Yeah, I can, you can find my name actually, 21:50.800 --> 21:57.800 even it's all right down my email right here. 21:57.800 --> 22:01.800 I mean, yeah, we have our official feedback form and rating, 22:01.800 --> 22:03.800 but sometimes sometimes, 22:03.800 --> 22:06.800 sometimes in person, 22:06.800 --> 22:09.800 I do recognize sometimes person-to-person communication 22:09.800 --> 22:10.800 can make it much easier. 22:10.800 --> 22:13.800 And I can direct you guys to the, 22:13.800 --> 22:15.800 and your chat is here. 22:15.800 --> 22:17.800 Yeah. 22:23.800 --> 22:25.800 Now, hi, H-A-I. 22:25.800 --> 22:26.800 I'll be next for it. 22:26.800 --> 22:28.800 And the, 22:28.800 --> 22:31.800 Gmail.com. 22:31.800 --> 22:34.800 So now is there, I'm gonna get spams. 22:34.800 --> 22:37.800 And, and from you guys, hope to hear from you. 22:37.800 --> 22:39.800 And we are a very small team, 22:39.800 --> 22:42.800 but we have the top expert in every single few, 22:43.800 --> 22:45.800 below you guys. 22:45.800 --> 22:47.800 We, our job is to, 22:47.800 --> 22:48.800 it's not even, we're not, 22:48.800 --> 22:50.800 half of us are not paid, 22:50.800 --> 22:53.800 but our ambition or career is to make sure 22:53.800 --> 22:56.800 we support localization internationalization. 22:56.800 --> 22:58.800 And so, if you are suffering, 22:58.800 --> 23:02.800 that means we're not doing the internationalization very nicely, 23:02.800 --> 23:04.800 and we really want to make it better. 23:04.800 --> 23:07.800 And we try to help our end users, 23:07.800 --> 23:09.800 but we need to support you guys first. 23:10.800 --> 23:14.800 Can I actually ask you a question? 23:14.800 --> 23:17.800 So that means you have to stay here. 23:17.800 --> 23:20.800 I'll put this up in a minute. 23:20.800 --> 23:23.800 So, I was just doing a bit of reading about these, 23:23.800 --> 23:26.800 so you were mentioning the BIDI algorithm. 23:26.800 --> 23:27.800 I know that we can media, 23:27.800 --> 23:30.800 we're trying to migrate to using BDI tags. 23:30.800 --> 23:33.800 Do you have any thoughts on that? 23:33.800 --> 23:36.800 Yeah, that, I think that's the, 23:36.800 --> 23:41.800 the HTML level of markup of talking about the exact things. 23:41.800 --> 23:44.800 I don't want to pretend I'm not by the expert here. 23:44.800 --> 23:45.800 The more I say, 23:45.800 --> 23:47.800 I'm going to make a mistake. 23:47.800 --> 23:50.800 But I'm going to point you guys to, 23:50.800 --> 23:51.800 and the, 23:51.800 --> 23:53.800 we can media foundation is part of the, 23:53.800 --> 23:54.800 it's one of the members. 23:54.800 --> 23:57.800 So, we're actually ever just sad that every time 23:57.800 --> 24:02.800 UTC meets that media foundation is not there, 24:02.800 --> 24:04.800 but ensure, 24:04.800 --> 24:08.800 we need to make sure we guys actually talk to each other. 24:08.800 --> 24:09.800 Yeah. 24:09.800 --> 24:10.800 Awesome. 24:10.800 --> 24:11.800 Thanks. 24:11.800 --> 24:12.800 Thank you. 24:12.800 --> 24:15.800 I think we still got a bit more time, have we? 24:15.800 --> 24:16.800 Do you want to say something more? 24:16.800 --> 24:18.800 We can also end. 24:18.800 --> 24:19.800 Yeah. 24:19.800 --> 24:20.800 If you want to end, 24:20.800 --> 24:22.800 that's when your talk ends, 24:22.800 --> 24:23.800 you still have time. 24:23.800 --> 24:25.800 Yes, go for it. 24:25.800 --> 24:26.800 We have about five minutes, 24:26.800 --> 24:29.800 but I have another question. 24:29.800 --> 24:31.800 Comment question. 24:32.800 --> 24:33.800 Yeah. 24:33.800 --> 24:37.800 When you made the change to show what the name of the properties 24:37.800 --> 24:39.800 that were being changed, 24:39.800 --> 24:43.800 is there a way to see what they were changed from 24:43.800 --> 24:46.800 so you can see a history of changes? 24:46.800 --> 24:48.800 Yes, there is. 24:48.800 --> 24:52.800 So, we document everything at Wikipedia, 24:52.800 --> 24:56.800 and at least this is the project Wiki data. 24:56.800 --> 24:58.800 So, there is a complete history. 24:58.800 --> 25:00.800 If you click through through the Wiki data item, 25:00.800 --> 25:03.800 you'll be able to see all the changes that have happened 25:03.800 --> 25:04.800 to that particular label. 25:04.800 --> 25:05.800 Yeah. 25:05.800 --> 25:06.800 Cool. 25:06.800 --> 25:10.800 I wonder if anyone else has more questions? 25:10.800 --> 25:14.800 I just had a couple of questions for you. 25:14.800 --> 25:18.800 I just wondered if anyone had an opinion on this particular example, 25:18.800 --> 25:21.800 whether the bottom one seems acceptable? 25:21.800 --> 25:22.800 Yes. 25:26.800 --> 25:27.800 Also fine. 25:27.800 --> 25:28.800 If you don't. 25:29.800 --> 25:31.800 Is it, I don't know Hebrew. 25:31.800 --> 25:34.800 Is it normal for the colon to have a space on each side? 25:34.800 --> 25:36.800 Hmm. 25:36.800 --> 25:38.800 That is a very good question. 25:38.800 --> 25:40.800 And I have a feeling, maybe, 25:40.800 --> 25:42.800 just because I typed out in the slides. 25:42.800 --> 25:44.800 So, I think not. 25:44.800 --> 25:48.800 Yeah. 25:48.800 --> 25:49.800 Exactly. 25:49.800 --> 25:50.800 It could have been. 25:50.800 --> 25:51.800 Yeah. 25:51.800 --> 25:52.800 Good question. 25:52.800 --> 25:55.800 This felt kind of the parentheses after that. 25:56.800 --> 25:57.800 Yeah. 25:57.800 --> 25:59.800 Probably to the right. 25:59.800 --> 26:00.800 Yes. 26:00.800 --> 26:04.800 So, it should be closer to the other bracket to make it more clear 26:04.800 --> 26:06.800 that you're meant to read right to left. 26:06.800 --> 26:07.800 Okay. 26:07.800 --> 26:08.800 Thank you. 26:12.800 --> 26:15.800 Just in case anyone has come across. 26:15.800 --> 26:18.800 Any different conventions between the languages. 26:18.800 --> 26:21.800 I'd be really interested to hear about that. 26:22.800 --> 26:24.800 Okay. 26:24.800 --> 26:27.800 And then I was also wondering if there's any unknown unknowns 26:27.800 --> 26:30.800 that I should look out for when going into these things. 26:33.800 --> 26:34.800 Yes. 26:34.800 --> 26:39.800 From my experience figuring out how do you make the editor properly 26:39.800 --> 26:45.800 in the nested, nested, nested, right to left, left to right by direction. 26:45.800 --> 26:47.800 That was absolutely horrible. 26:47.800 --> 26:50.800 And if you can solve that, that would be great. 26:51.800 --> 26:53.800 Okay. 26:53.800 --> 26:55.800 I won't repeat that, which is the... 26:55.800 --> 26:58.800 Actually, I don't think I can repeat it. 26:58.800 --> 27:03.800 The nested, the nested experience when there's a lot of right to left 27:03.800 --> 27:05.800 and left to right in the editor is a hard book experience. 27:05.800 --> 27:06.800 Cool. 27:06.800 --> 27:07.800 Yeah. 27:07.800 --> 27:08.800 We'll bear that in mind. 27:08.800 --> 27:09.800 Okay. 27:09.800 --> 27:10.800 Thanks everyone. 27:10.800 --> 27:11.800 That's it. 27:21.800 --> 27:22.800 Thank you very much. 27:22.800 --> 27:24.800 Thank you very much. 27:24.800 --> 27:25.800 Thank you very much. 27:25.800 --> 27:26.800 Any editor placement? 27:26.800 --> 27:27.800 No. 27:27.800 --> 27:29.800 It's not an editor placement. 27:31.800 --> 27:35.800 So, following up on the previous Unicode pitch there, 27:35.800 --> 27:37.800 I thought I'd say hi. 27:37.800 --> 27:42.800 If you feel inclined to go against the instructions 27:42.800 --> 27:46.800 that Benjamin gave at the very beginning of this whole session, 27:46.800 --> 27:49.800 where he said that if you are intending to invent 27:49.800 --> 27:51.800 your own thing, don't do it. 27:51.800 --> 27:54.800 If you do want to invent your own thing, come talk to me 27:54.800 --> 27:57.800 and we'll figure it out. 27:57.800 --> 28:01.800 I'm the chair of the Unicodes, 28:01.800 --> 28:07.800 CLDR committees, subcommittee, the message format working group 28:07.800 --> 28:13.800 and the editor of the message format section of the LDML 28:13.800 --> 28:15.800 spec from Unicode. 28:15.800 --> 28:21.800 So, I'm the guy who's figured out that I need to invent the new things 28:21.800 --> 28:23.800 and have been helping with that, 28:23.800 --> 28:26.800 but my sense is that if you do need to do this sort of thing, 28:26.800 --> 28:30.800 do it in a way that is not just your own thing, 28:30.800 --> 28:32.800 but you're solving it for everyone, 28:32.800 --> 28:34.800 so that it's not your custom thing. 28:34.800 --> 28:37.800 It's everybody's shared custom thing. 28:39.800 --> 28:41.800 So, this was Emily. 28:41.800 --> 28:45.800 Emily is working on many things in localization, 28:45.800 --> 28:51.800 and he also invented or worked on two new localization formats, 28:51.800 --> 28:55.800 and he's not very happy that he had to do it. 28:55.800 --> 28:57.800 So, yeah. 28:57.800 --> 29:03.800 But, as you can see, translations are very diverse 29:03.800 --> 29:05.800 and interesting topic. 29:05.800 --> 29:09.800 And I think we are looking at somebody who will send some proposals 29:09.800 --> 29:12.800 for next year's edition of hopefully, 29:12.800 --> 29:14.800 translation development for them. 29:14.800 --> 29:20.800 We still have 45 seconds to the end of the talk. 29:20.800 --> 29:22.800 Yeah. 29:22.800 --> 29:24.800 So, we still have time, 29:24.800 --> 29:27.800 and we will, in five minutes, 29:27.800 --> 29:31.800 begin with our latest talk from Zugi. 29:31.800 --> 29:33.800 That's not here. 29:33.800 --> 29:36.800 Oh, yeah, he's taking a fresh air. 29:36.800 --> 29:40.800 About Luonti, about localization of a game 29:40.800 --> 29:44.800 that actually doesn't want to steal and sell your data.